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House | March 31, 2015 | Chamber | Elections

Full MP3 Audio File

The House Committee on Elections will come to order. Members, please take your seats. Visitors, please take your seats in the rear of the chamber. Members, the purpose of today's meeting is to hear and take action on Senate Bill 181. The schedule will be as following. The Chair intends to recognize the senator from Wake County for about a two minute presentation. The chair will then recognize Representative Stam from Wake County for up to five minutes presentation. We will then cause the committee discussion as we have numerous citizens who have requested to speak on this bill and we will take public comment at that time. When those who have signed up to speak have been given the opportunity to do so, we will at that point resume the committee discussion. With that, the matter before the Elections Committee is Senate Bill 181. Sen. Barefoot, you are recognized to explain the bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chairman. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Part of me, Senator. Do members have copies of the bill? You have the floor Sen. Barefoot. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you members of the House. The purpose of this bill is to increase representation and geographic diversity on the Wake County Board of Commissioners and to ensure that every Wake County voter has a voice. Wake County is one of the state's most populous counties and is part of one of the fastest growing metropolis areas in the country. Currently the commission is made up of seven members, five of which live within the city of Raleigh. Seventy-five percent of the towns in Wake County don't have a single representative on the county commission. So what is this bill do? This bill increases representation on the Wake County Board of Commissioners from seven members to nine. One of the new member districts will represent the city at large. One of the new member districts will represent the small towns at large. This bill changes the current at-large election process to a single-member district election process to ensure geographical diversity within Wake County. The bill also aligns the Wake County Commission districts to the Wake County School Board districts's, which has been upheld by the courts and already been upheld by the Courts and already approved by this body. This will provide for increased accountability and transparency between our elected officials. The current archaic system was developed before I was even born, when Wake County's population was only roughly 300,000 people. It requires candidates to run costly, county-wide campaigns limiting the pool of those who are financially able to run. It forces our County commissioners to serve almost 1,000,000 constituents each, more constituents then members of Congress. The most recent election proves that current system ignores our small towns and most importantly, the will of the people. It does this by denying communities the power to choose their local elected officials. For example, the commissioner who represents Fuquay-Varina represents a district that voted to elect his opponent in the 2014 election. Boosted by heavy voter turnout inside the Raleigh city limits, Mr. Calabria won his countywide election by a wide margin, but he lost his own district by nearly five points, or 2,400 votes. So lost the people at Apex, Holly Springs, Fuquay-Varina and Garner. This bill ensures that this will no longer occur. Under my bill, if a County Commissioner candidate receives the most votes in their district in which they run then they will represent that district, just like you and I. In fact opponents of this plan have argued essentially by implication that we should elect the Legislature statewide. We tried that with Superior Court judges and it was struck down. I also represent another county, Franklin County with Miss Richardson. Franklin County's population is roughly 60,000 people. They have seven County commissioners, five in residential districts and two at-large, much like we are proposing here. Wake County has 1 million people and only seven members. Our county commissioners prone to represent more people than the governor of Delaware. Meanwhile, the citizens get lost in the numbers. The current election process needs to be improved and we can fix it. Representation is strongest when it is closest to the people. We feel the most disconnect between president

As U.S. senators and governors want to relate to them or the county commissioners local office but there's nothing local about running to represent one million people and Mr. Vs.Tammy recognizes when the bill make of it, it was explained very well the server barefoot out just the right public comments tonight is a big one for a few questions later at large districts against it for 35 years finally we realize what has been in litigation all over the country at large districts submerge minorities , Wayne County is the largest population and the state I did not go all the complaints about the bill(SPEAKER CHANGES) I've heard no complaints about going from 7 to 9 five are no complaint about the idea of having district elections be all complained of a rebel is that maxim sales but we're not using maps, blue we're using the exact same doubts that if approved by the Federal District court a year ago for our school board as one appeal the fourth circuit I don't believe the opponents will we and if they do it would have the same effect on this but the closing or even approve a Federal District court there's no need to calm innovate and try to improve on massive bill as you listen to a video of people, some of the people of why county does relies that simple it also no one is terms will be shortened the people who will come up for reelection in 2016 can run in their same district say been writing and all from the previous four years if they want to know terms are short and they can run at large from the residence district bill will only be completely phased in and 2018 to be effective beginning and 401912 units for the full year so we've been it's a one page bill book was that simple thank (SPEAKER CHANGES) Mr. Mccue members of this, some chairs that if they come in from all under previously discussed and presses the committee on elections were going to extend to all who signed off from the period of 2 minutes to comment on the bill will force the exception to that will be the elected officials who have all three rushers with Cher in which case we established and president will be extended up to 5 minutes the chairs aware of only three elected officials commissioner firms commissioner of labor commission was this an additional one official here please , please let me make plays please all notify the clerk but from what with two is more asp and when you signed and speak for the relief to remember last call you to one of two and from one of them might one directly behind along the way of 2 minutes to speak only issue the sort of all is forgiven for 1 minute warning in the chair rescue to conclude to remarks by the two men are more so than we will ask you to please begin your remarks by saying your name for the record so speaker number one, this ancient decide if you would please just state your name and then you have a foreman for 2 minutes 15 races at am and many miscues on sat, 33 year resident of lake county where raise my family and alumni has been in the nonprofit business adding that about disabilities neighbor ID not understand that I need your advice for the stains we can ease growth and spread it is not the low eye on C frankly why the state legislature is getting involving county redistricting this Bella said to be Monday by desire to have more equal representation and especially in rural areas away county but it does not provide that's my proposed district for example extraction downtown way me all the way it was that the town of wake forest and other district does in the far eastern reaches a Lake Forest to the far western side of Marcel I'd bet I do not call that will pull world representation the fact that the democratic candidates slap.....

[SPEAKER CHANGES] The very recent county commissioner race makes partisan reasons a much more likely motivator for this bill, as we all know, and as your constituents will clearly understand. In two recent polls, Wake County voters have said they do not support this bill as is, and without a bipartisan commission having time to assess its need and/or a voter referendum, this bill clearly does not meet the test of being fair or deliberate if passed. The will of the voter will once again, if this is passed, have been denied. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you ma'am. Speaker number two if you would state your name please. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Hello my name is Irv Portman, I'm a 24 year resident of Wake County. I'm the owner of a manufacturing business and employer here in Wake County, and I also have served in elected office on the Cary Town Council and as a member of the Wake County Board of Commissioners. Each of you made an important decision to stand for office, to serve the public, and you did it for an important reason. You did it, you said you would run to make things better. You said you would run to stop fixing and rigging of elections. You said you would stand up to doing things wrong and stand up to big government telling local government what to do. Some of you have done more. Representative Stam, I don't agree with some of what you do, but there's some-something you've done I applaud. For 20 years you've been a clarion voice against a rigging of elections. You've called for election reform. A majority of the House members, 62, have co-signed a bill which would call for an impartial redistricting commission to end the rigging of elections. This bill today makes about as much sense as an alcoholic saying I'm going to stop drinking after the next beer. Let me rig the county commission and then I'll stand up to gerrymandering forever. This bill is an abuse of power, rigging of elections is wrong, and big government telling local government what to do is wrong as well and you know it. We can see the effect of rigged elections in Washington. Please, don't bring that dysfunctional state to our local offices. Some say to the victor go the spoils, get over it. It's a great sports analogy. But this isn't sports, this is our democracy, and just because you can do something does not mean you should. With this vote you will have a chance to leave a legacy. Make sure the legacy you leave is something you will be proud to tell your grandkids about. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Speaker number three. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen, my name is John ??. I live in the county between Fuquay -Varina and Holly Springs. I urge you, and will make an argument why you should support and vote for Senate Bill 181. A lot of people have made this into a political debate. I'd like to argue that it's not a political debate, it's a foundational debate. 239 years ago this country, through the Declaration of Independence, stood up for voting with representation. Our colonies, our people, the people that we are today, didn't have a voice in parliament in England that represented them. They didn't get to choose it. So England came up with a very convenient way to justify that. They called that virtual representation, which the colonies denied. So let's take that into modern times. Do we have virtual representation? When an elected official cannot, does not win the vote in the area that they actually represent, but is voted into office by people outside of that district, outside of that area that they represent, we've got a modern day form of virtual represntation. It's not the will of the people that they represent. In my case, in my district, my representative did not win my district, yet another authority, maybe similar to a foreign body that could mandate who represents or how, how voting is taking place or anything else that you want to make that into like

Parliament is of auto body outside of my district elected my representative for represents me not sure if that is what we wanna do it certainly wasn't what we wanted to 239 years ago thank you for speaking with four 51 minus means the mound slam of 46 year resident of Wayne County are fair and honest in represent civil actions have been much of my passion since I retired in 2007 OE and that person dying answered many years as recent poll worker three years as precincts chief judge and O band began devoting my energies to nonpartisan get out the vote and voter registration efforts often at discuss 13 with bond with citizens they say that they're not going to vote because the vote doesn't count for that reason I have a strong supporter of house bill nine to the nonpartisan redistricting bellman has over 50 sponsors to 86 including my own Representative Bevill stands out a chance of making more of our legislative districts competitive again I continue to believe and the importance of a society which encourages Y voter participation not one that does things to undermine the belief in the value of their vote this tale is obviously politically motivated and its passage is going to embitter more citizens five the way it's been down if elway and in which the way commissioner districts need are drawn needs to be changed the right thing to do is to allow it to be done by a nonpartisan group with limestone some representation thank the keys to do a far from enough to me and my name is Cindy Singh, send 9000 a week and for him 14 years isn't from I have three children and other public school system and then to two other counts in a round of the fact I got involved in politics from IE has joined Edinburgh, (SPEAKER CHANGES) democratic women we count and I in the third vice president of the current from the president as a small business and was unable to attend this afternoon in a statement to read on behalf of democratic women of returning this league is taking down is an abuse of power the citizens are we turning the citizens of North Carolina deserve better than its politicians should no longer be able to drop their own districts to benefit their own parties and independent commission used to be established to address redistricting need this bill has to the public distrust of politicians and elected officials the public is tired of political gamesmanship is an old proverb that says Eric ann's diminishes with them when this thing about as we watched arrogance of power in action pass seven A supporter of the nonpartisan redistricting OO the lines and I think they will we doing here is a travesty from thank you very much harm is a sinker him if he would have you read a prepared statement this would go for you and another speaker if you'd like to submit a written statement supporters to record all these conventions for people who make sure it's geared for Hans Peter six to seven pages so much I appreciate the opportunity anonymous Brian Fitzsimmons I'm a cop rock constituents of the reserve your Jackson in the summertime barefoot of a comet's aides say much of what I've said before before this body and others of this bill is season is a misguided attempt it, (SPEAKER CHANGES)changing the will of the people, the argument that this has been a bill that is to put together to bring greater representation from the way county citizens is in many cases simply not true, we've got in the Indian side of the district's we have precincts is north is 0901 in settling a self as 0606 and holly springs one of our prior speakers and certainly on the senator from mentions of today about sin of Commissioner Michael Andreas five BC bases in a in a saving of ring up only because the district's is a system they were drawn five in 2001 of the...

The faster and I Don mile defeated Joe but Richard O'brien, in the very same manner that the they're pointing out the commission collaborator of was defeated last year still decided it was not a problem and voted but apparently it's a problem now I can make a mistake if this bill is passed for those that have been approved and I can I can certainly telling a DV about pulling says so that people flee county say so that you will do so after electoral peril so please I encourage you like to urge you please vote against senate bill 181 thing to think you members next speaker speaker seven, is Commissioner Bernson started off with a jester, to launch and 5 minutes to address, your mission would appreciate it can measure welcome you to force are registered German Pershing person from mines john burns mile away, commissioner fives and one of the year before you today as a representative of one million residents await him a university to defeat senate bill 181 and on necessarily partisan example of bad government at its worst Westmont five appear before you, forcing some as this bill was run through the house and less than a week (SPEAKER CHANGES) I thank you Mr. Chairman for taking more time on the side of the buildings greatly appreciated why did not agree with the process by which this bill was addresses seven nevertheless way county heard the criticism of our system and we take very seriously as why we've started the citizens commission countywide representation are easily economically racially and politically diverse group that will thoroughly examine whether changes needed, so why change makes sense for recount the change if it comes will come from the bottom of the way things are supposed to be the reverse this body to give that process find work tree senator barefoot spill as a needed domino that got the processing or the process started but do not adopt the district's if you see the 41 because frankly every justification offered by supporters of these districts is false is said that the current system is too expensive and serves as a barrier for elections and I spent $235,000 one 10th as much as the senator and receive five times as many votes as he did it all in all three of my colleagues for first time elected officials none of us has ever served in elected office to four is not a barrier to entry is a very doable collection is said that municipalities will be better represented with local representation it with a map of the districts under this bill conveniently the one before you does not have the city boundaries drawn with the one that has the city boundaries and you'll see that area sliced into four districts wander into five wake forest and roll celery sliced into two might be linked to meanwhile Wendell and 71 over here or in the same district as the more populated parts of brier creek for those of you not from lake county best clear on the other side of the killing a baby represented by the same district is said that these districts have been approved by the courts may have lost their own appeal to the fourth circuit court of appeals which will be bound in its analysis by last week's Supreme Court ruling against the Alabama districts back issue will come into play into the scabies districts and miss nothing is certain about this month is said that better represents he's truly talented young ones every person Wendell and Michael and many precincts in or what about the people who voted for me and said this play is popular with the news and observer reports are recent scientific poll shows a clear to one majority county Y opposes this bill and the more they learn about the bill more they opposed it is said that opposition to this bill is just liberal (SPEAKER CHANGES)Y. Oates said that the republicans are trying to stick to the democrats a governor Macquarie john heard Congressman Howard Coble and the mayors of wake forest enrolls bill both republicans have spoken out against this bill and the equally bad bill in Greensboro or mail liberals we all know what this plans for please do not tell the people wake county that it is raining that they feel on their hands because we know is not win over what we're asking forced to delay this bill use it as a chance for a community to come together and propose something that the entire community to support to get behind and yes vote for the death of a gentleman misspoke for us in favor of the bill and I too would resent and I think the people wake county would resent having a system in postponement from outside from people they do not vote for agreements are the election........

EORHHH [0:00:00.0] …Elected me and my colleagues were running under the system and under the lines that republicans drew. We won that race just like many of you won races in districts that democrats drew that’s the way democracy works, if we need to redraw this system let the people of Wake County do it, we will be happy to do it and we will do it in a fair and equitable manner muck like Mr. Stam has repeatedly requested that the whole people of North Carolina do for all the districts in North Carolina. I promise you, you will be proud of the effort that Wake County puts forward in this regard and I thank you for your time. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Commissioner, speaker #8 was Commissioner Steve Rawat, the Chair was advised the commissioner… [SPEAKER CHANGES] He asked me to inform you that he had to go for a family engagement for he was going to speak against the bill, thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Commissioner, I just wanted to make sure we didn’t skip and speaker #9. [SPEAKER CHANGES] My name is ?? Lambert and I’m a 17 years resident of Wake County, a small business owner and a recent citizen as you can probably tell from my accent. Thank you for taking my comments, I would like to put one side the rights and wrongs of the districts how that drawn and whether this is a good or bad partisan move. My comments relate to process or perhaps process with no pressing elections to necessitate this bill being rushed through at no senses to indicate a need for redistricting, why not go through a consultative process, the citizens and voters of Wake County deserve to participate in a discussion of the rights and wrongs of this bill. Let us hear the data to support arguments and favor of the bill, let us understand the reasons for drawing lines as you have, give us credit for being interested and motivated by the privilege of voting for our elected officials, thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, speaker #10. [SPEAKER CHANGES] My name is Harvey Schmitt and I live at 9005, Armitage Court in Wake County, I have come to you as both as citizen of 22 years of Wake County and as President and CEO of the Greater Raleigh Chamber of Commerce. I want to begin my remarks but recognizing the merits of the bill as they have been presented in a county with over a million people, there should be more representation on our board of commission. Additionally, there are benefits of having a combination of district and at large representation and we appreciate those suggested changes. However, reviewing the bill we have considered many factors including the local quality of life, growth, and prosperity, and economic development, and keeping those factors in mind we have a couple of concerns about this legislation. My first is the elimination of truly at large districts; truly at large districts allow Representatives to look at our county as a whole. The majority of North Carolina counties and municipalities have at least some at large representation because it’s a system that works and without a county wide prospective we will have a system of district versus district in the our location of scare resources. All commissioners will be focused on bringing home ?? to their own district and that creates an environment of competition instead of collaboration at some point the interest of the whole county need to be represented at the table. Additionally, we are concerned that there has been very little community dialogue on the issue, the citizens of Wake County should have the ability to way in and how they are represented. And I urge you to consider allowing this issue to go to either a referendum or taking the time to receive recommendations from the counties, newly created citizen’s committee on county redistricting. So I come to you today as a Chamber Executive, Business Representative, and as a citizen and I ask you to consider, reconsider moving this forward, this legislation forward, thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, members for the record just to be clear that was actually speaker #11, Mr. Schmitt, is this speaker #10 or is this speaker #12? [SPEAKER CHANGES] [Inaudible] [SPEAKER CHANGES] #10 left, so we now move to speaker #12. You have the floor madam. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I’m Lynn Admen’s, is that speaker #12? My name is Lynn Admen’s and I’m the parent of two students in Wake County public schools, I strongly oppose Senate Bill 181. Sponsors and supporters of this bill are not listening to the citizens of Wake County as evidence to what the results of a pole released last week. This bill inserts partisanship into our school… [0:05:00.4] [End of file…]

Else's only signs stating its way carrying banners have rejected copper prices sent to Y is in recent years that provides our schools first things we need a landing weight matters and returned eight Kia partisan school board enticing headlines constantly and this month and down when there is rejected as slain of commissioners. These to collaborate with the school board opting instead to put by its inside the school system of nice needed ninths senate bill 181 makes me feel manipulated and seeded as inventor and as the pirates adding west and legislative decisions that apartheid Carolina public schools white hats the teacher assistants and inadequate funding signed a difference lane of commissioners who care deeply about public schools and plans to protect and strengthen them and 11 Disney and majority of white banner is a route did prior public education leaders decibel distance banks nonbanks and the wellhead wake anise innocence plain and simple banking and can choose to advise the (SPEAKER CHANGES) speakers from 4 to 14 am a year for speaking with 50 welcomes and thinking are 16 of them, in a style checker from a moving northwest relief for the last 21 years , married with three young children work as a financial adviser in north hills am here today because I believe that local governments the best way for an average citizen like me to have my voice heard in Wayne County commissioners such an important part from the life of my family and many families are just like mind are scattered across as county fitness level that all of us are properly represented unfortunate Cornwall there's no distinction within the county to ensure that each part of the county's at adequately represented by commissioner is simply no way that seven democrats and zero republicans can properly represent the one million citizens living in this county and another politics wins both ways with seven republicans and zero democrats would be just as improper there's a reason each of you represents a specific district in our state and we don't wanna hold a single statewide popular vote to lector North Carolina house representatives for state senators widen we do this for a county such as large as wake it doesn't fit finally over this argument about putting go directly to the people we county or we all know this is simply not so subtle way of trying to keep the status quo those in power never inclined spread out around more equally why would the Rollie voting bloc ever vote to give some of its power to be our power of parts of the county and down and I'd be curious which other current seven democratic commissioners would be opened to redistricting so that they might possibly lose their seat or republican and the effect of district means more heavily to republicans this is precisely why we don't live in a simple democracy as some scenes seem to think this is a democratic Republic would democratically elected representatives like you to come together on behalf of all the people to bring about more balanced walls not just the will of the concentrated in urban populations thank you thank you speak of the 17 , menus from roam and author of Fidel some number 17,(SPEAKER CHANGES) a stronger poles senate bill 181, poll was taken from March 20 to 22nd of the year as a citizen of the way counted views on the bill and these are results compare the democrats and 2/3 independent voters oppose the bill messing 40% of republican support the claim that means the best thing that made the republicans from him 50% of bowls and support plane over 50% of voters away county fed did not support this plan, it also showed the building of oppression for those who vote for the plant dispute centers on represent about dolls district of them, and some of them alone rose is spent this group of 3.2 % of all, said they would not support of the work day one, one might not vote for them if they voted for this plane from 71% of all rows and rows and columns district were O be more like a notable for her if she met all 4 miles, and will send both hill Martin and call ......

[SPEAKER CHANGES] All in Jackson. In closing, I would like to say that the plan does not solve the problem it is supposed to solve. It is people from northern Wake County, it's people from northern Wake County are not most likely going to be represented by someone in Raleigh or southern Wake County because of how the districts are drawn. The map is clearly designed to give Republicans an advantage and not, and that is not fair. Wake County has thrown strong, a strong history of supporting, has shown a strong history of supporting candidates across racial lines, similarly African Americans who have been elected countywide. I'll stop, okay. Most recently Commissioner West and Holmes, I want to throw that in. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Dr. Johnson. Speaker number 18. Welcome sir. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I'm Dustin Ingalls, speaker number 18. I grew up in northeastern Wake County and I now live in Knightdale, just one precinct over from the bill sponsor's district. One of the points raised in support of SB 181 is that four of the seven Wake County Commissioners live in Raleigh, suggesting they are unable to represent the interests of other parts of the county. But does Senator Barefoot not provide the representation the law requires for Franklin County, despite the fact he lives in Wake County, some 38 miles southwest of the northeasternmost corner of the Franklin County parts of his district? I think he does. Senator Barefoot and others have said this bill provides more local control, when in fact it does the opposite. it would not allow Wake County voters or their commissioners, to have any say on these district lines until four more county commission elections have passed in the year 2022. And even then there is no specific guarantee in the law of a referendum. In the meantime, 154 legislators who represent no parts of Wake County, including all but two members of this committee, will have had a say on how Wake County voters elect our own county commissioners. But we won't, for at least another seven years. That makes no sense and that is the opposite of local governance. According to a poll released last week that some others have referred to, the people agreed. Only 26% of Wake County voters support this bill. Representative Stam, only 30% of your voters support it. The Senate is messing with local affairs at every turn, but you've already shown the capacity to disagree with them. And here's another chance to listen to the people and let them continue to govern themselves. I urge you to take it. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Member, speaker number 19 is former Representative Russell Capps. We're glad to have you back sir, welcome to the committee. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chairman, thank you for the opportunity to speak before you. I served 12 years in this body and one of the committees that I served on each of the 12 years was the local government committee. I especially requested that because I think that local bills are closer to the people than anything else you consider. And I come to you today asking you to approve this bill. It's a simple bill, it's been explained well. It's a fairness bill. I was impressed, as we all were, with the Sergeant-At-Arms talking about fairness. He was very fair in everything he explained. He laid the rules down and said it's all about fairness. I can tell you this bill is about fairness. It gives the opportunity for voters througout the county to be represented as they should, instead of the vast majority of voters within the city government controlling everything. I urge you, ladies and gentlemen, I know the feeling of the people because I've served for 21 years as head of the Wake County Taxpayers' Association and we we have connection with many, many voters in Wake County. And I have not heard a single poll of the kind these people are talking about. I urge you to approve this bill. It's a good bill, a fair bill for Wake County. Thank you very much. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Speaker number 20. Welcome sir. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, my name is Ed Jones, and I am Chairman of the Board of Directors of the Wake County Taxpayers' Association. We support this bill, and I support this bill, but I'd like to make it clear to you that I haven't come lately to this idea of supporting the vote of the people by district. I have felt for 35, 40 years that it was a dumb way to collect-to elect people from Wake County to represent us on the Commission by having it countywide. I've always felt that we needed districts. A lady mentioned to me earlier this afternoon as we came in that she thought she remembered that we used to vote by district in Wake County. Perhaps that was back in the 60s or 70s or early 80s, and I seem to recall that we did have district voting also as well. As of today, you've heard before, several people have mentioned this

Five of the seven commissioners awake and abort the mission or from the city's overall a the previous group of commissioners only one of the four commissioners that represented the bay area was from the city overall and all those were from outside the city the role areas the smaller towns in lake county deserve better representation and they're gonna get from five big city urban focus commissioners there's no fairness about. (SPEAKER CHANGES) And we birdied the use of the work they did several times today it will be fair about it we need to have these areas represented about people from outside the city of rolling in effect will we have mail is a second City Council for the city of Raleigh sitting in the states of the way county commission bet is not fair you heard something about some debate for the school board and in the previous school board in the wake of the commissioners will I suggest to you that the commissioners were representing the way county taxpayers association for wise spending our money when they were in those seats thank you speak and with 21 welcome, and isn't remaining as usual. NET era news all I'm a student and my family and salmon and nine women and minority rights because of our location and not currently being represented, we can commence when Carroll has one million citizens and police district affairs is, representing thanks to a 10,000,000,000.8 points its accountability is only possible answer is that people in their district rather than the impossible one million RME Neely Nissan and voices Michelman C1 millions of years at least seven voices out there, but their reasons he's buying a commissioner who might be specifically to hear intact appointed attorneys facing that one against IBM and calmly be able to the firm represented as two million of my district in our people redeem our presentation and geographic diversity I employ T it's about bats to senate bill 181 eighth today(SPEAKER CHANGES) Mr. Simonson C and thinking freeware to help make their voices. Members to remember 22 is Commissioner Pauline green way county circuit, and some 5 minutes as well for me to serving Mr. Perot me and my name is Mike Lowry and we county commissioner from the point arena my guess is by now you're well acquainted with the organs for instance, be it a proponents of this bill will continue to say that it promotes diversity and 80 cultural areas the opponents of this bill will say creates instability and destroys moderation or, but you also know it was really driving this bill is none of those things its power is the power to control electoral outcomes regardless of what people have sent out we just, (SPEAKER CHANGES) like a couple months there was no gerrymandering involved because our elections were county one and no thinking person's room can imagine this bill coming forward last year when the composition of the county commission was different from what it is now we also know it's about power because it's not just happy we county is happening and county governments and municipal governments and school board governments throughout the state right now this is part of larger trend of fabricating division among more people rich against four republican against democrat are older girl vs. Irvine bowl for all the talk about North Carolina been divided into two north carolina's near board is one North Carolina people may have different backgrounds people may be struggling with different things but ultimately we need to face this as the United Group anytime people are divided into two sore people restart record we treating people is it there and cans it's usually because of the politics of winners and losers and we need to reject back, mentality and that sort of situation no one has been made my district in particular, it stems from a fundamental gist of misunderstanding which I want to address the current system drawn. Runway county district, the one running county one creek, is intended to guarantee the course one commissioner comes from every one of those districts is intended to guarantee geographical diversity now whether that's a cheap we can talk about in recent months to disagree with 5:00 AM certainly we can talk about redrawing the actual districts themselves but this notion that we only represent our art district is incorrect I have to live in a district.....

I represent every citizen of Wake County. My phone rings whether that call is coming from Roseville or Wake Forest of ?? Marina or Garner or any other place in the county. So the notion that these districts are in some way unrepresented is simply not correct. And just by the way, there are four county commissioners of the seven, not five, who live in Raleigh. With respect to a comment that was made earlier, if we could follow a process that was non-partisan or bi-partisan that got broad input from a large swath of people from throughout the county, a diverse group of people, and we could pass that by referendum, if that meant losing my seat you bet I would still vote for it because the underlying premise in all of this is that government matters more than the people who happen to be in the seats. This bill is about disliking the people who happen to be in the seats, compared to what it was just a year ago. We have to oppose this bill and choose, to allow our better angels to prosper in this situation. Gerrymandering is wrong, no matter who does it. That’s something that I think y’all know too, and that’s why I hope you’ll vote against this bill or at least amend it to ameliorate many of the harms that come with it. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you. Speaker number 23, is this Commissioner West? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. West, as the Chair of the Wake County Board of Commission, we’re pleased to welcome you to. The Sergeant at Arms will extend the gentleman five minutes for his remarks. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you so much and good evening to each of you. I am James West, chair of the Wake County Board of Commissioners. I oppose this bill as it is. I’m very concerned about the process that has been used. I don’t think it’s an engaging process. I served on the Raleigh City Council as an elected six consecutive terms and I represented a district, served on the Wake County Board of Commissioners, and I live in a residential district and I run at large, as we all do. So I have a perspective. I know the pros and cons and the pluses and minuses of serving the district as well as running at large. I think we need some combination thereof, the whole issue related to looking at how we can better serve our constituents. It’s very, very important but the thing that I’m very concerned about is that we’ve kind of rushed to judgement on this. We have not really looked at all the objective data. I think this has been a very subjective process. Also, I’ve heard reference made several times to a board being seven democrats versus seven republicans. This is rather unique but I think we should look at the reasons that this happened. I think it’s representation, listening to the people, also if you look at over years, we have had extremely good balance on our Wake County Board of Commissioners in terms of Republican majorities as well as Democratic majorities, and trying to work together to achieve a common end. Local control is one of my biggest concerns. I think the key to government is good local control at the local level. And I feel that there’s a trend here that is not really good, where that Wake County, it appears to me, has been singled out in terms of the structure of how we are elected. I’m not talking about districts. If you look across the state, I think that’s the strength of this state and the strength of our democracy. As has been mentioned in 1981, we established this at-large residential district process. It was tweaked in 2012. I was a part of that, and it’s kind of interesting that the General Assembly did not weigh in at that particular time. So that is a little bit suspect, from my point of view. This form of government is truly working. We have not ?? as I said, to what we have completely but I think the right process and tweaking this process and looking at gaps and how we can work together as a team is very, very important. And it also has been mentioned that a referendum to give the people the input and at least allow this citizen committee on representation to work together, this bill from my perspective and I’m not an extreme person but this is an extreme bill. We will swing from 100% at-large to 100% districts, and we

Have much broader responsibility than the school board and this analogy to the school board to me is not a very good analogy. The at-large positions, whether it’s as it is or whether we’re talking about some balance between that, it gives a big-picture perspective and ?? the need for us to look at those things that bring us together to look at the big picture in relationship to the parts to the whole. And so I feel that we have a strong economy. And Wake County contributes tremendously to the gross state ?? So I think the key here is let us try to work together. That is the bottom line, and talk to each other to see if we can work this thing out, which would be good for the people of Wake County. And let’s not establish a trend that would be bad long-term for us. So I appeal to you, please don’t rush to judgement. Give this some time and remember that strong leadership, which I expect in this particular body, is when the leader’s willing to sacrifice his or her personal interest for the greater good. Thank you so much. God bless you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ladies and gentlemen, I’ve received an inquiry from the committee, so the Chair would like to inform he members, the Chair is aware of nine additional speakers on this matter. It is the Chair’s intent to debate this bill tonight. The Chair’s aware of six amendments that have been submitted so far, and it is the Chair’s intent to review those and to debate this bill tonight, and to ultimately accept and vote on the committee’s recommendation for this bill. With that, speaker number 24 is no longer here. Speaker number 25, welcome ma’am. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you. Good evening. My name is Letice Rhodes, and I’m here to speak to the democratic process, and the violation of its principles. This morning when I checked my email I learned that bill 181 was scheduled for public comment with less than 20 hours notice. Additionally, Bill 181 itself is a travesty for democracy. Redistricting in order to determine the outcome of a race, also known as gerrymandering. Wake County voters fairly elected our sitting county commissioners and will contest your attempts to gerrymander our candidates and officials out of office. Facing your plan ?? does not make it more ethical. I’m here tonight as a matter of democratic principle, to request a minimum of 24 hours notice for hearings, to request that the state legislature stay out of the workings of local municipalities, and to support non-partisan redistricting. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you. Speaker number 26 is Mr. Bill Gilkerson, someone who is known to many of us here as a long-time staffer. It’s good to see you back, sir. You have the floor. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you. I did not realize that this was going to be a public hearing so I didn’t prepare anything. So I decided that what I would do is act, oh, Bill GIlkerson, I’ve been a resident of Wake County for more than 30 years and I used to work here. I didn’t realize this was going to be a public hearing so I didn’t prepare anything but I thought I’d ask some questions that generally go to the question of where did the bill come from. I know that when legislators introduce bills, they usually do it because somebody urged them to do so. The first question is, is there a national strategy to redistrict local boards in cities and counties that are leaning democratic, so that republicans can control those boards. Does it come from Alec or some national organization of that sort, similar to the red state project that we know about, and is this bill a part of that? Was the Greensboro bill a part of that? Next question is did interest groups, whose economic interest groups whose activities are regulated by the Wake County Commissioners, ask for this bill and what did they play in it? What role did they play in it? And the third question is, were most of the people who requested this bill

DOOLSV [0:00:00.0] Inside Wake County or outside Wake County, thank you very much. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Sir, Speaker #27. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you for the chance to speak. I’m??, I lived in Wake County most of my life. I’m leaving a map here today, it would have been nice if there have been more notice and last night they will be a lot more people out here to speak. The proposed commissioner districts are traced on this map which I will leave, and it has some municipal limits in Wake County. This map counters Senator Barefoot’s claim that is proposed to give better representation to the outline municipalities in Wake County. As it’s evident only Wendell Ambulant and Morris Field are spare the carving knife, all others are split into at least two districts of parts of Raleigh in District 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5, parts of Gardner are 1, 4, 6, and 7, and parts of Carrie in 5, 6, and7. Representative Stam has suggested that ordinarily he would support districts been drawn by an independent re-districting commission but since we already have these maps approved for the School Board districts, he supports this plan. Stam is taking advantage of the Wake County Board of hard work to de-patronize the work of local governance to get falls for reassurance of this sensibility of this plan. Unfortunately, most voters do not yet realized to have it but these jury mandate districts are going to read in the school board raise in 2016. As they should be these maps are still in court. The increase stability of Wake County’s local governance comes from a more logical geographically condense map which was drawn by the Republicans in 2010 and 2011. These districts aren’t healthy for the school system or our county. The voter of Wake County and all of North Carolina deserve better, thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you and Mr. ?? if you would like to submit something and please feel free to give it to the Sergeant-At-Arms and make sure guest and the clerk, and the guest including in the record. Speaker #28, welcome. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you. Hi, my name is Taylor Dolthy, I’m currently a resident in ?? arena, I have a degree in business with a concentration in accounting and a CPA designation. I have over 25 years of experience ranging from large enterprises to venture back start ups and my husband and I currently own and run a small business. I’m in favor of bill 181, Wake County is one of the largest counties in North Carolina in terms of population and it is both geographically and economically diverse. Well, it is the home to many high-tech companies; there are still many rural areas where residents are living in agricultural businesses, each region of the county has its unique attribute which I believe will be more fairly represented by the passing of this bill. This legislation increases representation for the citizens of Wake County, how can that be seeing as a negative. It ensures that small towns and counties have a voice which leads to accountability between elected officials and their constituents. Senate Bill 181 is a common sense measure to expand representation in the local government and I sincerely appreciate your support and moving it forward, thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Speaker #29. [SPEAKER CHANGES] My name Dwayne ?? thank you ladies and gentlemen for allowing me to speak today. As I have heard some of the previous comments and some of the threats to you all availed and un-availed as far as your electoral chances, if you support this bill I’m reminded of why 239 years ago we were broke out to rest control from those in power back to the people. So I’m here to appeal for peace today and you can have peace if you will pass this bill, I have lived in Wake County for nearly quarter of a century, in the county I have never lived in municipality and frankly I’m embarrassed to hear my County Commissioners speak and say they represent me yet if they have their way they will permanently exclude me from having to say and who my county commissioners are. As long as Raleigh carry, hold the majority and things stay the same, I will never have to say and who my representative is. They have said we should put it out to… [0:05:00.6] [End of file…]

I'll take a broader of poll of the people like counting would guess what the military has the majority of people the poll is going to somehow support the status quote I urge you to support this and I thank you for allowing the state to the accuser to the number 30 of the day minus care plan on the Carey resident of also carry the death of those foolish over most of your second record for the South Carolina of early this afternoon in North Carolina house just voted to change the school board district and Rockingham county but those changes will not go into effect unless the voters of Rockingham county agree a new poll suggests this week redistricting scheme is very unpopular of voters is supporters of this bill think we county voters agree with this new decades gerrymandering one of the profit they can't prove it by putting it to vote the people put to a referendum the sponsor of this bill says they want to give voters a voice he can do that you can do that you voted to do that in Rockingham county is a giveaway voters a voice by Lehman vote on this new decade redistricting skiing is also answer question why are you giving the voters a chance to vote on redistricting plan and Rockingham county but so far you're not giving voters away county a chance to vote on redistricting plant in wake county what is the ethical democratic principle used in four when you allow voters to win on one plant in one county but not in the other (SPEAKER CHANGES) I agree with one thing the bill's sponsors said give voters a voice give voters a voice would wake owners vote on this point thank you speak and 31 and john Bryant of Reston the Rollie and uses 1976 and we the people report students of history if you look in the North Carolina constitution and I still says today in formation of the senate or house district milk and shall be divided and look over got a net interest note ended about sex into art one of the state constitution guarantees and all political power is vested in and arrive from the people exercise through their elected representatives shall the proposed bill in question boat is not merely legal is logical in its consistent wall are from four success for democracy now a greater number of voters in the milk space of the territory which they resided greater effort and expense is required to inform voters OK this background character and qualifications for office way candidate contains a greater population in six states and United States are about 5000 from people behind the state of Montana would be rated bigger than seven great in Redmond District office in mechanic commissioner board rev and all the way candy is completely logical the system proposed by senate 181 is identical to the bicameral system adopted by many callers to government and republican also adopted by state constitution to go nuts module from a reducing the GR Vin number of voters in commission districts center requires less capital and your shoe leather to resemble the voters although there's no current limit on in my mind it can be spent eighth in the first reported and at one is said requires less to do more to educate voters small district is afforded better opportunity to level the playing field for less well funded candidates to inform good bits and succeed against the wealthy one base to comic character qualification and ability and can not merely money is true when you can for public an independent or democrat think you members of terror is aware of no other speakers and (SPEAKER CHANGES)Sandra speak service from one to return to the committee discussion chair will also announce are there and say, some chairs war heats and which Ver winner which are minimal for them and media markets are you holding out for the press book on members meet, the armaments and streaming and remission post falls .......

Have a moment to see those. If you will, the committee will be at ease for just a moment. [PAUSE] ?? Essentially what Mecklenberg County has done for years. Third, Mr. ?? asked two questions. Did this come from Alec. No, haven’t heard from Alec on this or anything similar. I don’t know of any nationwide thing, and who thought of this bill? Who brought it to us? There she is. She doesn’t even talk. Fran George. Her father was a famous Wake County commissioner, JT Knot. She lives out in the county, and she doesn’t like the fact that she doesn’t have any representation out there. Finally, I was tricked into running for political office for the first time in 1984. I was told that if I would put my name on the ballot, that I could withdraw it within 30 days, they could put a real candidate on the ballot. It was a three county district. Wakely and Harnett, three senators representing. So I got into it. Unfortunately the law didn’t let me withdraw and I didn’t want to lose so I tried, and I won the primary and I had three on three and I lost badly because Wake County totally submerged Lee Harnett. They picked ??. But when I looked at the map, I realized after I had lost this election, that if I had run for the House in the district where I lived, I would have gotten like 49.5% of the vote. At large, districts over large areas which probably at that time wasn’t even as large as Wake is now, are bad policy. We’re asking you to do it, get it right, for Wake County, under the constitution, this may be a shock to some of the people who spoke. Section 3 of our Declaration of Rights gives the people of this state, that’s you, inherent sole and exclusive right of regulating the internal government of North Carolina. Article 2, Section 24, Declaration of Rights, says no local bills on certain subjects, this ain’t one of them. And then Section 7 specifically gives the authority to the General Assembly to regulate elections for counties. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Senator Barefoot to address the bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and the reason why I’m running this bill is because I represent all the towns that don’t have any representation on the Wake County Commission. Wake Forest, Roseville, ?? Zebulon, Windell, Garner, Willow Spring, ?? Marina. And so that’s why I’m here before you, and Mr. Gilkerson and I have worked at polls together and we’ve known each other for years and enjoyed that relationship. But the reality is that the people in my district are very afraid that if we don’t change how we do elections in Wake County, they will not be represented

on the County Commission and we just had new demographic data that came out this week and we've had 100,000 people move in to this county between 2010 and 2014. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Jackson, would you approach the dais please? Members, the discussion at the dais, Representative, oh, the Chair would like, on behalf of Chairman Jones, the Chair would like to extend a welcome to Representative Jackson who Speaker Moore pointed to the Committee on the elections today. The discussion at the dais was that Representative Jackson and Representative Gill had entered an identical amendment and after conferring with the amendment sponsors, Representative Jackson's amendment that was identical to Representative Gill's is going to be returned and not be considered. But at this time we will move in to conversation and consideration on the amendments that are sent forward. The Chair is going to begin with Representative Jackson's amendment numbered S181-AST-24 Version Two. It begins Representative Jackson moves to amend the bill on page one, lines 2-3. Representative Jackson, first of all do all members have copies of Representative Jackson's amendment S181-AST-24 Version Two, including the bill sponsors? Representative Jackson, you have the floor to explain your amendment, sir. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ladies and gentlemen, this first amendment simply, if you're looking at your colored map that's entitled Wake County School Board Districts SL 2013 110, if you're looking at your map and you're trying to figure out what the big, thick, black lines squiggled around precincts in the middle of the county is it's setting up two, it's termed at-large districts. Now, we can debate whether it's truly at-large if it doesn't include the whole county, but it's two districts. One is which is clearly designed to be a republican district and one is clearly designed to be a democratic district. I see all kinds of problems with these districts. The outside district B, you would represent, no matter what corner of the county you lived in, you'd have to drive the entire county but half of your trip through would not be in your district and that just, it just makes no sense to me. So this first amendment will not mess with the numbered districts, one through seven, but it would get rid of district A and B so they would truly be only district representation. Representative Stam or Senator Barefoot to address... [SPEAKER CHANGES] We would oppose the amendment. You heard the debate today about the various, Trinity and the other places, I've heard no objection from the people to increasing the size of our commission from seven to nine with a million people here. These districts, the overlay was done for the school board because a lot of people wanted to vote on at least two members of the school board because maybe they don't get along with one. So here, they have two. Every person votes for two people, an individual district and then an overlay district so they feel better about it. We would ask you to defeat the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Is there further discussion or debate on amendment AST-24? If not, the question before the committee is the adoption of the amendment sent forward by Representative Jackson numbered AST-24 Version Two. Those favoring the amendment will say aye, those opposing will say no. In the opinion of the Chair, the no's have it and the amendment fails. Members, next up will be an amendment from Representative Jackson numbered S-181-AST-25 Version One. It reads, to begin, Representative Jackson moves to amend the bill on page one, lines 14-16. Do all members have

GYTGSV [0:00:00.0] Copies, so Representative Jackson you have the floor to explain the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chairman. Ladies and gentlemen this amendment would just make the two at large seats truly at large and so you would have the nine districts that Representative Stam mentioned that was a good reason to have the overlay in fact instead of be and blessed with the ability to vote for two of your members, you would did now on amendment, you would be blessed with voting for three County Commissioners. I think the diving precincts and everything of this map for the two at larges just is very un-workable, you basically have two people running at large the whole county and lot of confusion about who is aware and so my amendment would just make the true the A and B, truly at large county. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Stam on the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes, Mr. Chairman we would ask the members to defeat the amendment for couple of reasons. First of all, it introduces confusion because the School Board elections happening at the same time will no longer be in sank with these and people do get confused about who is running for what. Secondly, we do have these larger districts to have a broader few of things but it still have the population of the entire thing, you cannot raise enough money for a County Commissioner raise to really affect, to really affect the vote when you have a million people that you are running for that you are appealing to. Instead as it happened before, it’s a lot of outside money, a lot of over influence by the paper, it’s twice as expensive to run amongst the million people as amongst a half of million people. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Jackson is on the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chairman. If I could just respond to Representative Stam, Wake County is a very large county and unfortunately, our media market is not designed as the proposed map. So running a district of 500,000 in the inter part of Raleigh is not gonna be cheaper than running that larger county because the television is gonna cost you the same amount of money. The radio bias gonna cost you the same amount of money, the way this map is drawn you are gonna have to run cable television and basically every municipality, if you live on the outside other than Raleigh is not gonna save you that much money. So I think the true at large is the way to go and I would ask for the member support. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Speciale is on the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] What are the numbers in these two districts, A and B and how they compare? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Speciale are you directing to Representative Stam, can you, first staff address that? [SPEAKER CHANGES] I’m directing to ?? the question. [SPEAKER CHANGES] They are all within like 4.8% of the ideal district I mean they are approximately equal. One is 4.9% below the medium; one is 4.9% below correctly with the additional 100,000 people that we have gotten in the last year or two. They are probably now equal. [SPEAKER CHANGES] But just because where the growth is… [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Stam to be clear because I think the Chair just to be clear the amendment Representative Jackson send forward, I believe Representative Speciale was asking about the numbered districts this amendment is for actually the Jackson at large, so it creates two at large, is that correct? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes, what is the question Representative Speciale? [SPEAKER CHANGES] These A and B, are those not the at large districts? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Half of the county at large, half of the county at large, yes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] And I then I wanted to know how they compared number wise with people? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Approximately, the more equal now than they were so they are approximately 50-50, 500,000 probably by next, 2016 there will be probably another 100,000 people. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Jackson is on the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] If I can answer Representative Speciale's question Mr. Chairman. [SPEAKER CHANGES] It’s on the page 2 of nine of your data pack, District 1 has 472,000 residents, District 2 only has 428,000 residents. So you have got a difference about 45, 000 residents, about 10%... [0:05:00.4] [End of file…]

Deviation is the showing up in a dismal Confucius is of Indian be on the district's utility that rare event and checks he does say this could one say that if you read the top and says awake and Leonard, Jordan so that they could use of being one should be with a theme one with and see what the base person jackson's tools to spin a conformance testing you the correct amount of station are just a moment if this were briefly via district court Judge Terrence Boyle held it was within acceptable population deviants with the one with lesser population is one world role of the growth is coming so they're probably exactly 5051 no congressman was found in Mr. (SPEAKER CHANGES) Sources amendment is there no races from Vines questions all of this would be remembered, the firm under standard holding picture of what works for rationale for your stupor districts and their realm is a mystery very far as to whether that means that the way the school board or commission CSX exactly exactly what the school board elections will be in 2064. (SPEAKER CHANGES) The deviation from an irredeemable mess with the board election, one and number two you'll have incredible voter confusion the closure will have an infinite number of our belts styles of Richard Mitchell won the N, Renton stadium need talk about the school district in 26th inning, and you taking into account with the supreme court is saying about homecare mentoring in him and most recent decision in Alabama case and even though you're doing this recording its initial K and Alabama if the courts to determine if there was OK too much report is thrown at crematoria beginning to pay a vote we have followed by county is not a section five county disseminate it 5 to 55 to finish with Jim from, 6:00 PM vs. Tim says worst thing they were not packed with woman's your EF of Americans before version of the show they made the ruling base and even move signals ruling not based on § will link and presented to the court of appeals for to the shawl and if they win the school board can still win this one will buy the idea I'm no, I'm down Saddam went with with emotions functioning and no bounds wrinkle in another week and would not, but between court rules in article 14, in the whole argument in Alabama case and spicy Mexican private bank to any great extent, then finding the difference between Marichal him and frugal gourmet eight when I can almost prehistoric home park with 14 Mr. Chairman Robeson books couldn't repair mission go yield for a quick question that could in message and one from Birmingham to move your convenience,(SPEAKER CHANGES) use some somewhat below the ground woman of the Alabama case if you fill fixes to shun the government did what would happen was in the Alabama Kings of the overloaded districts from the spring quarter student numerical, didn't he made a mistake and using numerical value in addition to the political gerrymandering precision, somewhat in violation, one of 14 one and one vote that we can fill pastry with a decision to debut and only one win one goal of 14 rather than fiction packaging no effect members signatures were redirector conversation to the Memorex and Jackson which are believed to be fair system can see the changes of water districts to it to true of morse's review for summary of new and used some of these are further discussion and debate on Russian objections of Newman EST Dutch 25 version one ......

?? none members the question before the committee is the adoption from the amendment, the amendment submitted by Representative Jackson AST-25 version one. So many as favor the amendment will signifiy by saying aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Those oppose will signify by saying no. [SPEAKER CHANGES] No! [SPEAKER CHANGES] Nos have it and the amendment is not adopted. Representative Jackson will let you rest for a minute. Representative Gil is recognized to submit S181-AST-19 version 3. It begins Representive Gil moves to moves to amend the bill on page one lines ten through thirteen. Lady is recognized to explain her amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chair. This amendment is asking that we make this a referendum and allow the citizens of Wake County on whether they want this change or not. It’s just the simple referendum bill. And the reason for this is because you heard from quite a few citizens of Wake County and they are asking that we allow them to vote. And it’s the fairness. We’ve heard it talked about on the floor. And in here this afternoon, that we should give the citizens of Wake County the opportunity to make a decision on whether they want to change the way they vote for county commissioners or not. So it’s the simple, give the people the choice. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Stam on the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes, I would ask you to not agree to the amendment. Some time we do referendum sometimes we don’t. The effect of the referendum however, is that the referendum would be in November of sixteen. Which would mean you would begin the process in eighteen. It would be fully implemented in twenty. And the people would start serving the term really for in twenty-twenty-one. I’m too old for that. So I would ask you to defeat that. We also have a problem of course, that we had the phenomena of about five or six million dollars of out-of-state money pouring in here last time. Which the folks that want to do this can of course do that again, unanswered. And it’s just not appropriate for ??. The people opposing it, most of them don’t really disagree with the districts. They don’t really disagree with the increase of number. It’s just that they don’t like the districts. But the districts are what they are. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Chair. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Gil on the amendment, and then Representative Torbett and Representative Harrison. Representative Gil on the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I just wanted to respond to something Representative Stam said. Of many being poured into Wake County, was not necessarily for the county commissioners. But we know what the money was for. So we don’t need to talk about money being poured in, because I think your going to get contributions from a lot of different sources. And that does either make or break a campaign. But I think if the citizens of the county voted for the elected officials then they truly believe that these are the best candidates and that they will serve the county well. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Torbett on the amendment [SPEAKER CHANGES] Inquiry on chair. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman may state his inquiry. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Are we discussing the ability to raise funds or are we discussing the equalization and the fairness making ever attempt to have the constituents and the electorate out there represented as fair as possible or this has no basis on fundraising. Am I missing something Mr. Chairman? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Well the chair will take that as a point of order and the chair will simply redirect the conversation and the committee. The committee is considering an amendment submitted by the lady for Wake which essentially calls for a referendum AST-19 version three. The chair won’t comment. The chair will do a better job of controlling the make sure the debate stays on the subject. Representative Harrison on the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes. Thank you Mr. Chairman. I just wanted to speak in favor of the amendment. We heard a lot of comments from the public about how they feel about this. There seems to be pretty strong feeling on both sides and if

Worse there for a one up for the time for quite strongly that this tournament that the legislature is making in redrawing local districts are under seal into place in advance as it is an unfortunate term but I do think that there is some mom summed up by there's a lot of the time I'd say I'm supplying the public for allowing the public ever found voice and nothing but until that turns out I'm sensing debate in Greensboro and pushed back until quite strongly about the ability to Lehman thing redistricted and I think that we carry sense is still some are recited by their (SPEAKER CHANGES) Jerome strong support the Sonoma County , works in the books on the amendments are no more of the question is, I am wondering how vote the way delegation feels about this particular amendment if you if you know that if you talk to be your your fillers as to how they would feel about putting all this to a vote VO senators Beringer Alexander barefoot versions may MM along the $1.00 and go from one of five of pull your ribs and therefore proceedings and for their people might be some strong and interviews with more war was one thing for an act of one of your 401 half and were our constituents are one of the people there are an open call and our war 1.001 and one for women receive your thing, the democratic members of the break and delegation did not know if it is playing with coming for what we had sounded democratic we had several weekend delegation meetings and during those meetings we were talking about all of the legislation that we would introduce not one county commissioner(SPEAKER CHANGES) lawyer you represented the elected Representative Nancy and is doing with some Germans out for Richard Bryan alderman bob Novak and is from listening to them from some affects talk I was struck in Mclemore we have district representation rejection. Works very well at the seams to meet it from the county is margins wage i.e. not have some sympathy for the rogue river in an IBM County authorities way of representation through sees as many 5.01 would be lost by the eighth and events from volume Carey not agreeing to activate and keep their palates I do think it seems like an inappropriate from exercise for the legislature to be involved in protecting and four others municipalities and can members user further discussion and debate, newman's represented fuel Ast nine conversion RE studio on the question before the committees to adoption of humanness and former Representative Thiel PST 1943 those favoring the document will say are those opposing and will send no note due to the chairman's heaven is not often disarmed we will move into human medicine for Robertson Jackson in humans number is 181 dash 8 STF 1 to version to be the key is repeated objections from the old page one wants to converting them to check some workers when humans thickness and members admitted that he and ceo of downtown they will have enormous welcome so far to the elections committee, try one more time and down until I don't have the names and one is saying about, (SPEAKER CHANGES) member David Linley debate away county school board districts and one I was one of our from our republican colleagues was a we needed a new them all to this school year election five member years, need to put him home presidential election years so we can have the most ......

Voter turnout could I think this is so one distance and mammoth simply does is it says were only gonna have county commissioner elections for president four years will we have the most voter turnout filming no stack it will mess with the AMD 01277 to court approval with backs on the wind will blow still would have the same effect, but it will allow the most people have their voice heard on the elections can and so, does the public health and fitness person scramble the amendment thank you and I do not appreciate where to get some more in the comedian Paul is a worthy adversary (SPEAKER CHANGES) I mean everything and we'll work together 15 of what this does is very different than our school board built two years ago where we went from the five year while low turnout to even years and it was a presidential it was general election for some on one of general it, but forties of almost 161820 but this does it and it'll cause we want to do that, two years ago we extended the terms by one year before he had to do that again on the right side but this what this does is take the board is elected for four year term begins six year term as not right pocket support this and many courses it gives the people who would be that the bill allows to run at large again and 16 for those treated for use in warrior terms at large which is just what we're trying to not been refining a district elections so are all the amendments this is one I understand believes on Chairman Jones only member IQ of question for represented Jackson if he will you, Jamie and welcome a buffer into the elections committee out understated to say that this would allow for more people to be borrowed 54 the commissioners if they were all running in a presidential election year, I know fund is something we're not been a may not have we, as a bell all pastors something mixes that did some voters out there cannot Bennett said during presidential election year server does not everyone still have that opportunity in all key relations is there are we missing something understand more people cheese to do that for whatever reason but mom, is there reason that some people are unable to come out and bang for their commissioners are with staggered terms are based Warner vision research and supports parental battering, there is nothing that pervades the same number of people from voting and 28 teams voted 26. However at the we can all agree that turnout is better in presidential elections early voting is something I use more days are we a more sites in Wayne County and uses more convenient to speak to be a better turnout by the window, but neither company would forbid they think people are voting one thing at which they all wore user further discussion and debate over to the food from questionable resistance. Resisting the German version one of the bitter cold fusion you can help mission if they choose to turn one year and the Lakers cycle regional war two years ago is our soul but the same mistake and cannot be great ( SPEAKER CHANGES) if it is time that didn't come to some point cycle is with generous to do with being . And would not be in order to get into some kind of like a war story, here's the reason for SMS places lawmakers and expansion but secondly more importantly the reason we expanded of school board was to get it all for V5 year which is extremely low turnout into even years but even with him on presidential are fairly good turnout and 20 working follows a big difference follow the chairman's recognized the questions is yes and no used a minute for one year and so the question you you'll want to spend for two years is that the CIA single question of who will pull lawyer strict ill people yes and no .....

and I always say it's not up to the lawyer to say the answer. There's a big difference between extending one year to get it into a high turnout cycle and extending it two years to not get it into a much higher cycle. So I would ask the committee not to agree to this amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Further discussion, further debate on the amendment sent forward by Representative Jackson, AST-22 version 2. Seeing none. The question for the committee is the adoption of the amendment sent forward by Representative Jackson, AST-22 version 2. Those favoring the adoption of the amendment will say aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Those opposing will say no. [SPEAKER CHANGES] No. [SPEAKER CHANGES] In the opinion of the chair the nos have it. The amendment is not adopted. Members of the chair would point out that there was an additional amendment from Representative Jackson that was returned to the general because it was identical to the referendum amendment from Representative Gill. We now move to an amendment from Representative Gill numbered S181-AST-21 version 3. Representative Gill, you are recognized to explain your amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chairman. You know, this is the third time in five years that a redistricting map has been before this assembly. It should be obvious by now that the citizens of Wake County are willing to elect the best candidates for the job regardless of their affiliation. If they don't like the way you govern, they'll vote you out. And this can be seen over the past four County Commissioner elections. But what I'm presenting to you today is a fair way of doing if we are going to go to the seven districts and two at large. And if you look at the map that you have before you, you can see it, it has all of the colors and then it has A B. If you look at this amendment, it addresses three major problems with Senate Bill 181. One, it drastically reduces the population deviation among the districts. In the seven districts that are in Senate Bill 781, there is a deviation of about 7.8%, and in the two lettered districts, there is a population variation of about 9.8. If you look at the maps that I have given you, you will notice that the deviation is less than--that makes it 10%. No district in this drawing is more than 1% larger than the other district. This means that the voters in each district would have votes of equal weight regardless of where they live in the county. And if you notice, we tried to put the eastern counties together, and it does not look like the map that the original bill sponsors proposed. Even though it is a proposed Wake County School Board District map that has not been approved, I think the map that I'm presenting to you today, drawn up by a group of nonpartisan individuals who are saying that this may be a better map to look at, you will notice that all of the municipalities are in areas and all of the districts are compact in such a way that you have similarities of districts and you do not have them all centered around Raleigh. Senate Bill 81 proposes districts that would deviate the value, devalue the vote of the urban residents while inflating the value of the suburban and rural residents. And Senate Bill 181 would pack minority voters into a single minority majority district, majority minority district in which the value of these votes would be diminished. Two, the amendment keeps communities together. And if you notice that Senate Bill 181 splits 21 precincts across Wake County, and the proposed map that I have given you

ASIC zero precincts is drawn on precinct lines and in addition to that if the man is going to have like statistics specter county entrance with the top part of the county and it hasn't bound realignment of aunt at 40 AM Eastern Riley people of their medicine and what district of the air if you let that be at MIT Insurance that representation is near their constituents to represent these revenue their constituents if you let each of these districts you'll notice that the representing math live in the district and they're pretty close to their constituents basis of a story and mathematically compact disc execution you adding that we tried to fix a problem and I think this map would fix the problem(SPEAKER CHANGES) I think if you live and you can bear well see back in this best medicine is the effect of partisan motivation with some believe is not as senate bill 181 by making districts proportional campaign communities together and they sure they represented visually and effective for constituents I think this is the best way to do it if you gonna do it at home cell and ask you to support nine men may sit for a VO 10 and senate bill 180 when using a map that to happen for you to be granted his request regions new movement yesterday as a committee to not agree that the amendment if Wall Street bank be districts that we propose to be approved by Federal District court we should not rest until yet assured anybody bit no way will sue over these districts and of course they will second to talk about a versatile format than mice of deviation we can always O your reduce a deviation but since these are based on population from 20 T and the chance that they're actually the same today as a worthy and use remote myth is even possible and in that argument is made 50 communities of interest in what it does a course is split Rollie into a N diverting a very big community is put into district cell with no more combines communities of interest in the existing maps which basically is it's not complete, but it basically is Rollie is one survey crews and everything else is set as another serving fine if you go rejecting , (SPEAKER CHANGES) Richard Jackson women and Russians to make a 10 minute of it at the store would question to the amendment sponsor of the lady from which we yield to inquire into one guess she yields represent you'll be implemented to grow Alemany precincts were you forces with barely know of no precincts are as they're not all precincts 20 minutes from now E day in and margarine in EO margin districts nor the smaller districts all precincts a little Al Rosen Jackson began no question for representing the shield studio who sponsored the event viewer to quash the year rose until you were able to give the deviations that you got without splitting briefings of the current U.S. By its people and human race to commune with this looks like the really good deal in my opinion of government, think it would hold all of the scrutiny by any court,(SPEAKER CHANGES_) I want to tell you things I represent a voice number that people respond to you and our present the same area, we can only generally been represent consummate repair, comments on the planned and they're proposing splits that Aleman might bail him out and find it takes the republican who has served on the cob or four a belief three terms...........

The CNN made this for the southeast Robert , it is splits when Maleng said bill in the way. They are most likely going to be represented by someone from rat creek or false one where is if you look of represented deals district Miami would be on number five is clear that the scrolling county will have the least one representative from eastern way count from DOS is almost to a mathematical certainty book calls every one of those precincts listed is either he and nine billion dollars AB one or a believe of one of those three on the same goes for distant number one which is more,(SPEAKER CHANGES) Gore would be certain to have eight district representative underrepresented heels and number eight. With more like more than likely have a representative in this district all planned of review of 558 visit looks like it accomplishes some certainty what the bill's sponsors say they will from this reduced the proposal and it does it without splitting precincts the women 80 confusion all women 18 split ballots increasing some things about maker , it seemed like me this is a win women students seriously consider from persons stadium on the amendments into their own Russian official were some and we've heard many times their house and senate legislative maps split precincts the school board maps their employees with some precincts if you now been superimposed dismount one what will already be in the election of 20001611 infinite variety of ballots files you will have to hold voter confusion PO Board election confusion and it will be a warrior problem this is a wall food bank will make them a standard fare for if you would serve, version 12 to 01 to present more secure niche for the death of their final weeks of how the maximum able to be convincing about competing wax is the amended proposal which one do you recommend for a king, to share will speak to their of the amendments that the amendment and are presumed to be a lesson for his label when counting the OCC District alternative is 181 bench and students 21 54.72 different one of the things up from two to office process expression from my constituents to go from one commissioners, represent most detailed accounting is bored and the one geographic diversity of viewpoints most misleading about these maps and you can tell it by just looking and which are familiar with one count will represent bills amount does is it takes no rule areas and a dozen graphs just enough volunteers for trolley 01234567 different ways to give ground just about all wrong to influence the elections and representation from people in the small announcements; call with this will feel we have from 16,000,000 violent felons to one and Representative Michel this looking at the alternative year, (SPEAKER CHANGES) residents can call this deal me quote me if you've got to use me and Sheldon into madness than 1% deviation you get no script precincts, which is one for the known issues with the corporation's credit union based on this. Precincts you might almost like old counties in the coming of the seventies before being used to be where must balance, and, this has miss chains, Hong Kong, failing in court and one that you are right now viewed for me, if there could you get close finish their bodies reasonable fairness is when people see fairness to this is very fair and equitable situation and knowing where I'll be in line to not take the offensive code provision more......

VBSTKR [0:00:00.0] …On the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chairman and Representative Stam and Senator Barefoot if you would correct me if I’m wrong, I have spent a good part of the interim, I’m trying to divide up growing county for equal representation throughout the county for a County Commissioner and in the end I found after doing an overlay of 13, 14 years of County Commissioner’s representation we didn’t need that but what I did find out in the process and I think what you alluded to or actually said, when you look at Representative Gills map and having done this on the county, I will recommend you on getting the quality statistically that to Representative Stam’s point and talking with my local board of election to do a ballot where you are going to do the board of elections on the same ballot that you are gonna do the County Commissioner or whatever, even looking at this map, look at area 2 in the green, you would be voting, you have to have the ballot configuration where you have that large person from A on the ballot with part of what’s on the ballot for two and also six. And again, you get another precincts for the different configuration at two year point, am I correct? [SPEAKER CHANGES] That is my point, is it would be in any given precinct you would have to have maybe a dozen different ballots styles by that I mean different people for different people in the precinct because they will be voting for different districts so that’s why we tried so hard and I’m gonna make the confession, not a legal confession, no it’s nothing illegal. Senator Barefoot, what districts to propose, we would straight to the ones that were already approved by the court, we never look that who the incumbent was and I never looked at the stats. I never to this day had looked at the stats to find out because I knew it already been approved by the Federal District Court. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative ?? on the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] In putting together this map we didn’t look at the incumbents, we never look at incumbents, we decided that we look at the population and see if we could equally divide the county into seven districts. And then we looked at the map and decided on how we could best divide the map so that individuals would be able to look at a glance and see who they would be voting for, I think that the alternative map that has been presented today will give voters a great idea of what district they live in and who they would be voting for. If you look at the Wake County School Board district maps you will notice that this is not only divide precincts but it divide the municipality and if you are talking about the number of ballots that the Board of Election is going to have to have the map that we have for the Wake County School Board is certainly gonna give them a challenge. I think that if we are going to do it we knew to look at it and do it fairly. This map is a proposed map for the Wake County School Board and it has not been approved, it’s still on appeal. I believe that if we look at the alternative map you will see that it clearly gives and tries to stay within the guidelines of the election or the guidelines for voting. The equal protection clause of the 14th amendment that guarantees every person vote would be treated equally. I think if you look at the alternative map you will notice that it will work to make sure that each person’s vote will be treated equally. And that each of the districts are equally represented and even though you know the old argument that we have heard all along is that Raleigh is so big that you can’t get elected without having Raleigh. So we divided Raleigh in such a way that it has a nucleus but the outside precincts are contiguous… [0:05:00.5] [End of file…]

To all of the other areas that are round game Friday he batting an alternative map you not understand why are we can accept this as our children's ask you to vote in favor of imminent further discussion forum debate, and members and former representative you'll if not the question before the committees and menacing former representative you'll As 21 version three as favored passes quandary as favor adoption of human Wilson, sunrise, bone lady has called for the eyes and nose or is the closest thing to call a sustained the court will call will those favored the adoption of the amendment from Hawaii from wake up rule and surprise winner may was called as opposing lawyers from know their names call the court (SPEAKER CHANGES) Rosen show from the chair will restate the lady have a call for the eyes and nose those favoring the amendment sinful correction fuel winter, remains call from suppose when should know their names will resume show bush on resume warm were no resemblance was no reserve early Bruno versions of our round or brown no reserve Bryant Bryan know represent our Bruno a piece and Conrad , and no vision problem soon, rescinded its Davis no version of Dixon Dixon no provision for cloth Faircloth no reserve fisher fisher five persons born for drivers in the form four no residual Carolina Representative G. Graham Gere and one provision parser parser no provision are some persons are repeat of our version of our resume arm were no Representative Richardson reducing our Rivers are redoubling no no purpose in saint fervor and cheaper confirm no provisions for showing showing new version stamp note from Stan no herbs and former form a new version Willingham with him on her resume Jackson Jackson are members with 10 members voted in the affirmative and 18 members voted in the negatives in the midst of adopted members of the committee is going to stay in for 4 minutes since some of the members of the solemn and it members of the committee will come (SPEAKER CHANGES) back toward the chair might begin with a bit of housekeeping all of the amendment since only an four by the lady from one represented fuel, represented, chairman Jones's four was not recorded Chairman Jones one record as having voted no doubt would mean that 10 members voted the affirmative and my commitment to the record will flex or chair would also like to take a moment to think our circle of staff, from your tremendous work and I one falcons your parents didn't like.......

[SPEAKER CHANGES] Carlton Adams, and of course I think we've got the Chief Sergeant-At-Arms here somewhere, Garland, he's-well at least we had him for a long time and he did a great, he did a great job tonight. Members, it's the Chair's intent at this time to recognize Representative Stam for a motion on the adoption of the Senate Bill and we will then see if there's further discussion or debate. Representative Stam is recognized for a motion. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes thank you. Paraphrasing Thomas More right before he was executed, Representative Floyd has commanded me to be brief, and brief I shall be. I move for a favorable report for Senate Bill 181. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Stam has moved that Senate Bill 181 be given a favorable report. Is there further discussion or debate on the motion? The ayes and nos having been called, the Chair will assume that call is sustained, and, hold one moment. Is there further discussion or debate on the motion from the gentleman from Wake to give Senate Bill 181 a favorable report? Seeing none, members the question before the-the Chair apologizes. The Chair recognizes the lady from Wake, Representative Gill to speak on the motion. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I just want you all to know before you vote that Representative Stam thinks my maps are well-designed, and I think that he would vote for them. That means they're well-designed when they're prettier. And that he would have considered them if I had given them earlier. You let me go last, I should have gone first. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Is there further discussion or debate on the motion from the gentleman from Wake to give Senate Bill 181 a favorable report? Seeing none, the question before the Committee is the motion from Representative Stam to give Senate Bill 181 a favorable report. Those who favor the motion to give Senate Bill 181 a favorable report will say aye when their name is called. If the Chair could continue, those that favor will say aye when their name is called. Those opposing will say no when their name is called. The clerk will call the roll. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Michaux. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The chair realizes that calling for a voice vote while people are eating is unusual, so we will pause for just a moment. Representative Michaux votes no. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Michaux no. Representative Moore. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Moore an aye. Representative Blust. Blust aye. Representative Brody. Brody aye. Representative Brown. Brown aye. Representative Bryan. Bryan aye. Representative Burr. Burr aye. Representative Conrad. Conrad aye. Representative Cotham. Cotham no. Representative Davis. Davis aye. Representative Dixon. Dixon aye. Representative Faircloth. Faircloth aye. Representative Fisher. Fisher no. Representative Floyd. Floyd no. Representative Ford. Representative Ford aye. Representative Gill. Gill no. Representative Graham. Graham no. Representative Hardister. Hardister aye. Representative Harrison. Representative Hunter. Representative Iler. Representative Martin. Martin aye. Representative Richardson. Richardson no. Representative Riddell. Riddell aye. Representative Sainr. Representative Schaffer. Schaffer aye. Representative Speciale. Speciale aye. Representative Stam. Stam aye. Representative Torbett. Torbett aye. Representative Willingham. Representative Willing-

And no firms in Jackson no Karen Jones turned rooms are members of my team members voted in the affirmative and nonmembers and negative senate bill one and one will be given nothing more for four weeks this the chair sincerely appreciate some members for their patients 92 thinks all members of public for his patients and their patients might there be no further this is to come with me.......