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House | May 14, 2013 | Committee Room | Education

Full MP3 Audio File

If you'll take your seats. We have a couple more yet to be pulled out and during that time we can make our announcements. Today we have our Sergeant at Arms, our Marvin Lee, [Carl Marilo?], [Martha Gaddison?], where's Martha? And VL Pal, [VH Pal?]. We have [Anna Hoffman?]. Uh, they're passing out. That's Alamance county and that's Representative Riddell. We have Robert Jenkins from Mecklenburg county, and that's Tillis, and [Alexandria Stephen?], is that right, Stephen? And she's from Wake and she's um, Representative Fulghum's um, she's, is her sponsor. [Daniel Tally?] is from Guilford, and Representative Riddell is his, also his sponsor. And [Curtis Johnson?] from Chowan county. And that's Representative Steinburg. Welcome you and we hope you learn a lot today. If you'll look at your calendar, um, 8, House Bill 831, Education Services for Children With PRTS, that has been asked to be pulled, um, by the sponsor. And we've had one request, uh, because someone has a bill in another committee, so we're gonna just -- [SPEAKER CHANGES] -- Madam Chair? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] What was that bill you say was pulled? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Uh, 831. [SPEAKER CHANGES] It's not on the agenda, ma'am. Okay, well we got it off before it was printed, okay. We're gonna start with House Bill 735 Protect Religious Student Groups, and that's Representative Jones that's handling that. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Madam Chairman. Members of the committee, um, and this is a proposed Committee Substitute, Madam Chair. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Uh, this is a proposed Committee Substitute, Representative Shepard moves the proposed Committee Substitute be before us, all those in favor will say aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] All those opposed, no. [SPEAKER CHANGES] No. [SPEAKER CHANGES] It's properly before us. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Madam Chair. Members of the committee, uh, the Committee Substitute to House Bill 735 is a companion bill to a Senate bill that passed unanimously. This is a bill that has been passed in several other states, and basically what it does is provide that student organizations at our constituent UNC institutions or community colleges may determine the organizations core functions and resolve any disputes of that organization. It prohibits constituent institutions and community colleges from denying recognition to organizations for exercising these rights. The short title of the, of the Substitute, I think, probably says it better than the original. It is not simply about religious organizations, it's about any organization. But it's a students' rights bill. It basically says that the core function should be determined by that group. And, as I said, there is a companion bill in the Senate that passed unanimously. This has been passed in several other states. Madam Chair, I would be happy to entertain any questions. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Do we have any questions? Representative Glazier. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you very much. Actually, probably a couple of questions and then a comment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] That would be fine. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Madam Chair. Representative Jones, to the extent I'm looking at section one and subsection B of section one, so if a student organization refused to allow someone who was an unrepentant homosexual to be a member of their club, and denied that person who was a student at the University access to their club, and the University had a policy that said, we don't sponsor or at least provide funds, University funds, to clubs that discriminate against different people or categories of people including gay and lesbian students. Could the University, under you're bill enforce that policy?

Madam Chair, [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you for that question and I believe that I know the answer to that but it might be better for me to go ahead and refer to staff, if for staff is willing to take that question. [SPEAKER CHANGES] You are gonna have to repeat the question, there is lot of activity appear. [SPEAKER CHANGES] My question is, if a University has a Club, that the nice access to go to code unrepentent on homosexual uncode and says if you are not gonna repent, you can't be a member of our Club and the University has a policy that says it will not give University funds or recognition to Clubs to discriminate against certain groups of people including on the basis of sexual orientation or gender and enforces that policy, put that University enforce that policy under Section B section 1(B) if we pass this bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Blazier and almost an identical situation actually happened that in last year at UNC Chapel Hill. UNC Chapel Hill Crownie does not have an all comers policy, but has a policy that would be similar to this, which allows organization based on beliefs to it, determine its membership and leadership but does not allow discrimination based on some one who is a certain group and that one includes sexual orientation in, in that case it was an ?? group that had a over legislatures and one of their believed statements was that they did not believe in homosexuality and one of the members who was gay was excluded from the group on the basis of his belief rather than his status and the University upheld that as appropriate to the Policy. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Rep to follow up [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] My question is does this bill change the ability of the University or any University to enforce their Policy. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Staff. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Um, there may be someone from UNC Zone and is stationed here, we had asked them and they had indicated to us that most of the UNC System Carolina does not have all comers policy and have policies that do allow groups to make determinations based on beliefs but that so but that didn't have a full survey of all the Universities within the system and the intricacies of their policies, so we don't know if there is any that it may require some provision to someone from UNC General Administration may be here who can comment further on them. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Here one more thing we could hear what the University has that all with the Policy [SPEAKER CHANGES] Is there anyone here with the University that would like to speak on this. If so, please recognize yourself. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes Madam Chair, Druemore University of North Carolina General Administration, we are in the process of compiling all the systems on all the campuses, policies I mean this time when it is not completed and so, as far as there may be once we certify the campus are that we saw the entry level right now. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, thank you representative Jones, thank you Madam Chair. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes representative Lakie, [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Madam Chair and I am concerned about a lot of phrases in here representative Jones and let me just start with prof down on line 34, 35 on page 1, professing the faith or mission in the group or let's we say professing the faith of the group, what does that mean to profess. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Lakie and Mark opinion. The word profess means to to say. I mean if you are professing [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you [SPEAKER CHANGES] something you are to your saying something, [SPEAKER CHANGES] True [SPEAKER CHANGES] you are making a statement. I can stand up here and profess to be a native of North Carolina for instance, we talk about Professors. So those that stand before and make statements are believed that the word profess means say, I don't have dictionary ?? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Follow up Madam Chair, [SPEAKER CHANGES] Follow up. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Well, Yes when I am concerned concerned about here is that vagueness of the language. So if I join, I am raised Lutheran. If I join the Baptist Organization as a UNCG where I teach, I join that what, how much do I have to profess in order to be a deserve line 36, to serve as a leader of the Baptist

disenfellowship. Under your - in other words - under your bill, what would prohibit me from being the president of the Baptist Student Fellowship? I'm Lutheran. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I understand that. I believe, if you're asking my opinion, nothing. Now, basically I think what this bill states is that who makes that determination? Quite frankly, if you don't think that student organizations ought to have the ability to determine their own organization's core functions and resolve their disputes, then I think you should vote against the bill. If you think someone else should make that determination. I think what this bill says is not that Rep. Jones, or Rep. Luebke, or some outside group is going to determine what that is but the students themselves. It simply recognizing their rights to exist, if they have been recognized as a student organization, then they ought to be able to determine their core functions. Now, if you as a Lutheran, as you say, join the Baptist student union, then I would assume that that means that you adhere to the purpose of the Baptist student union. When I was in college, I attended such groups as the Baptist student union, and I'm not a Baptist, but I adhered to their core beliefs and I didn't come in to try to change their core beliefs, or run for leadership positions to change their core beliefs, and it basically comes down to who should be able to make that determination, and we believe that the University students in their organizations ought to have that right, as many other states have determined. [SPEAKER CHANGES] One follow up, Madam Chair. Would I be professing the faith if I believe strongly in the Eucharist which includes wine, and as I understand the Baptist denomination grape juice is used? Am I professing the Baptist faith or not? And this is a very serious question, because it's the problem with the bill as I see it. It's so vague, that how am I going to know, and more importantly, how does the organization know whether to kick me out or to say I can't be the president of the organization. Is wine vs. grape juice, is that enough of a profession of faith? And members, that's my problem with the bill for starters. Can you answer the question as you view it in the language of the bill? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Rep. Luebke, thank you again for your question. As I view it, I think it is better to have it to be relatively vague rather than making it too narrow and trying to determine exactly what someone should believe. I mean quite honestly, if there was a student organization that was recognized on campus and their core mission was to see that either grape juice or wine is served at communion, and you went in with the opposite belief and wanted to run for leadership and change their core mission, then that might be an issue. I don't believe that's the core mission of the baptist student union, but all I'm saying is that- or all this bill is saying is that the student organization itself should be able to determine what its core mission is, if they're going to exist. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Rep. Ross. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Chair. This is a question for the bill sponsors and maybe for staff, if the bill sponsors can't answer it. I understand where you're getting at, but I want to find out whether- because I think people assume that these kinds of laws are going to apply to certain kinds of groups, but they might have some unintended consequences. And so obviously, religious student groups can form their own clubs, but we have lots of different kinds of religions, and I was wondering whether if a majority of people in a certain religious club said that they wouldn't allow any women to be in leadership, because that was their religious belief, whether that would be permitted under this bill, and then even though some sects of that religion might allow women, but other sects don't, but you might- there's only one group and there's a majority with the sects that don't allow women. Sects, S-E-C-T-S. And then the other thing is

[SPEAKER CHANGES] It says in terms of resolving disputes and some religions believe in resolving disputes under a religious law that may have other implications on campus, may have other implications because of potential conflicts with our law. And so I just want to think broadly about this because it may not be just the situations that Representative Glaizer and Representative Luebke raised. There are some religions where a more conservative element since no women can participate in leadership but a more moderate element does, but all those students only have one group. Do you see what I mean? And how do you deal with that and then how does that go with Title 9? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes ma’am, let me try to deal with that and then perhaps staff would like to weigh in. First of all, let me emphasize once again that this is not a narrowly tailored bill to religious groups. We’re getting a lot of questions about that. This is about all groups. And I would just simply say for instance you had a group on campus, let’s just say you had the Democratic women. And I’m not a Democrat and I’m not a woman. But I wanted to come and join your group and I wanted to be a leader in your group and so forth. My understanding is that you would have the right to say that no, I’m sorry, you’re not a women, you’re not a Democrat, you shouldn’t be here. Now as far as your narrowly question regarding religious groups, I’m not aware of any religious groups. But let’s just say that you had a Christian women’s group. Or let’s say that you had a Christian men’s group. I don’t know if any of those groups exist on campus. But if it is a women’s group or a men’s group, I would think that they have a right to say that only men or women would be a part of that group. Again, this is not a narrowly crafted bill where we’re trying to stand up here and rally and tell every group exactly what they should believe or what they should do. We’re simply saying that the organization itself, not a particular member of the organization or anything like that but if they are existing for a particular purpose and the university has approved for them to be a group they ought to be able to determine their core functions. [SPEAKER CHANGES] We have a number of bills today. Representative Michaux. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes, I’ve got a question because you keep talking, on line 17 it says religious or political. And the inference is on religion there are political and the two examples you gave seem to be in contrast. But let me ask you this. Nobody’s answered the question raised by Representative Glaizer and I see a direct contrast there. If in fact you have an organization on campus that discriminates against any group, religious group or anything like that and the campus has a policy that they don’t believe in discrimination, then under this bill, that would force the campus to give that discriminatory group funds to operate with, as I understand it. Is that what this is saying? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative I can address that. You will notice, some of the language in this bill might be deemed to be somewhat unnecessary by some, but we thought it was clarifying I would point out that on both lines 17 and 32, you see the phrase, to an extent allowed by state and federal law. Now you discussed discrimination for instance. Most of us think of the term discrimination in the negative sense that you’re discrimination against someone for reasons of hatred or something like that. But I would just point out, people do discriminate every day one way or the other. Sometimes in a positive sense. For example, a university might discriminate whenever it allows certain students to participate at their institution and others based on their grades, based on their requirements or whatever so there is a discriminate made. So if that discrimination is made on the basis of hatred, of discriminating if you will against someone’s rights then I believe that we have laws that address that and this bill does not contradict those laws in any way. We’re simply saying that the student organization ought to have the ability to determine.

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Alright. Those in favor is twenty-six. Those against twenty-five. [CHANGE SPEAKERS] Madame Chair [CHANGE SPEAKERS] Yes [CHANGE SPEAKERS] To your right, Representative Torbett. [CHANGE SPEAKERS] Yes Representative Torbett [CHANGE SPEAKERS] For a motion on the bill, ma'am. [CHANGE SPEAKERS] I have, I'm sorry. I have two more speakers, but I'll at the appropriate time. Representative Fisher. [CHANGE SPEAKERS] Thank you Madame Chair. This is a question for either staff of the bill sponsor. Notwithstanding the amendment that was just passed that takes out the reference to federal law, I'm wondering can campus organizations discriminate if the sponsoring university or college where the organization is housed under federal law cannot discriminate? How can they be sponsored by a university that has to exist under federal law, federal laws, under a whole other set of laws? That's what I'm trying to get at. [CHANGE SPEAKERS] I'm sorry. I'm not sure I understood the question. Maybe the staff member did. [CHANGE SPEAKERS] Staff, did you understand the question? Do you want her to repeat it? [CHANGE SPEAKERS] I think one example might be helpful is that the current UNC Chapel Hill policy, for example, allows that you can, student organizations. I'm just going to read it to you because that's easiest. Student organizations that select their members on a basis of a commitment to a set of beliefs, such as religious or political beliefs, may limit membership and participation in the organization to students who upon individual inquiry confirm that they support the organization's goals and agree with its beliefs. But that student cannot be excluded from membership or participation on the basis of age, race, color, national origin, disability, religious status, historic religious affiliation, veteran status, sexual orientation, gender identity, gender expression, or unless exempt from title nine gender. So you can see how the current policies are set out. There will always be ???? [CHANGE SPEAKERS] The other thing that factors in, of course, is the student's right of free association to form groups and beliefs as they choose. As part of their free expression, free association rights. So university recognition, in many cases, involves being able to use the university name or symbol as part of its logo or as part of its title. But as part of that restriction a lot of times it does require that the university is not sponsoring or endorsing the organization. It simply is an organization of students associating on the university campus. [CHANGE SPEAKERS] May I follow up, Madame Chairman? [CHANGE SPEAKERS] Yes but we need to hurry along. [CHANGE SPEAKERS] Doesn't this open up the campus or the university system to an inordinate number of lawsuits? If an organization can do whatever it wants to do, even though it's supposed to be acting within the host's guidelines, the campus' guidelines, and they do things that are discriminatory, doesn't that open the campus as a whole up to... [CHANGE SPEAKERS] I think I do understand that question, Representative Fisher, and I would just say that if universities are discriminating against students, I think that opens them up to more lawsuits. In my opinion, the more that we can do to clarify the law, the more we keep cases like this out of court. [CHANGE SPEAKERS] That's all I have Representative Torbett. [CHANGE SPEAKERS] Thank you so much, Madame Chair. I'd like to propose [CHANGE SPEAKERS] Madame Chair [CHANGE SPEAKERS] that the house education committee [CHANGE SPEAKERS] I'm sorry. Just a minute Representative Torbett. [CHANGE SPEAKERS] Yes ma'am. I had my hand up. [CHANGE SPEAKERS] I'm sorry. I didn't see you. I am now taking a motion. We will discuss it at the motion. Representative Torbett. [CHANGE SPEAKERS] Thank you Madame Chair. I'd like to make the motion that

…the House education committee report favorable to the proposed committee. Substitute the House bill 735 and unfavorable to the original. [SPEAKER CHANGES] As amended? [SPEAKER CHANGES] As amended. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Call for the ?? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Second. [SPEAKER CHANGES] A motion is now before us. Representative Adams. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you madam Chair. I wanted to continue with some of the discussion. The question, and for me it hasn’t really been answered, can the student organizations, can they basically overrule what the university policy is? I mean I have a concern about that, and wondered if you can respond. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Representative Adams. The way I understand it, if it’s currently the university policy that student groups cannot determine their organization’s core functions. I think that would change, this law would change the policy because their policy would be in violation of the law. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Follow up? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes, follow up. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Let me just make a comment madam chair. [SPEAKER CHANGES] That’s fine [SPEAKER CHANGES] I think basically what this law proposes then is that if a student organization had whatever functions established, and the university had policies, if the student organization’s policies were different, then the student organization’s policy would overrule the university. And I don’t think that’s right. I have a concern about the language in here that talks about disputes in particular because I know that on university campuses you have disciplinary, codes of conduct, or they may call them different things. And that is something that the university has to enforce. And so based on what I’m reading here the university would really not have the power to do that and I just think that when students come to campuses, they should be able to, even within their organizations, abide by the rules and regulations of those campuses. And I just have some grave concerns about what this would open up on our college campuses and universities. I can’t support this bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The aye’s and no’s have been called for. Jackson. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Adams. Arp. Arp? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Bell. [SPEAKER CHANGES] No. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Brandon. [SPEAKER CHANGES] No. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Brown. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Bryan. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Bumgardner. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Carney. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Cleveland. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Collins. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Cotham. [SPEAKER CHANGES] No. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Daughtry. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Dixon. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Dockham. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Elmore. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Fisher. [SPEAKER CHANGES] No. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Gill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] No. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Glazier. [SPEAKER CHANGES] No. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Charles Graham. [SPEAKER CHANGES] No. [SPEAKER CHANGES] George Graham. [SPEAKER CHANGES] No. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Hall. [SPEAKER CHANGES] No. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Hardister. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Horn. [SPEAKER CHANGES] No. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Iler. Iler? Jeter. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Jones. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Jordan. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Lambeth. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Lucas. [SPEAKER CHANGES] No. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Luebke. [SPEAKER CHANGES] No. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Malone. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Martin. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Michaux. [SPEAKER CHANGES] No. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Pittman [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Presnell. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Riddell. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Ross. [SPEAKER CHANGES] No. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Saine. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Schaffer. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Shepard. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Speciale. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Stam. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Tine. [SPEAKER CHANGES] No. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Tolson. [SPEAKER CHANGES] No. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Torbett. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Turner. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Warren. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Whitmire. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Wilkins. [SPEAKER CHANGES] No. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Madam chair, to your right. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] My name wasn’t called. Representative Dobson. I’d like to be recorded as voting aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] There’s McManus too. [SPEAKER CHANGES] If you’ll just be at ease a moment while we count the vote.

Let me count that one down there. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The Bill Passes 30 to 20. Alright, next we gonna have to change around, Blackwell also has asked that he and Judith's bill be moved forward ?? 884 , this one has a referral to appropriations. Representative Blackwell? 884. Does everyone have this bill? This is a PCS. Do I have a motion? Representative Collins moves that PCS for 884 before us, all those in favor say aye. Those opposed no ?? the bill is properly before us. Representative Judith. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you maam ??, I will like to point out that the PCS which is version 16 and I will like to offer my deep hearted thanks to Patsy back there for doing so much good work on this. The referrals appropriation was removed from the floor yesterday so but the purpose of this bill is to set up a pilot program with two charter schools that have been with a successful system based out of the state of Florida. It is to allow for students that have fallen under basically two categories. One will be students who have not attended High School but yet have not graduated. People that just didn't go back to their junior, senior, sophomore year for whatever reason or more prevalently, those that have dropped out after some period of time. Our goal here is to allow opportunity with the charter school system to capture these students, get them back on track and ultimately return them to the traditional school system if possible. It is a good system which worked well in Florida. There is two proposed schools that we recommend in Mecklenberg County, which is a pilot program, this ironically enough, well it's not ironic, actually it's been supported by the Charlotte Mecklenberg school system. DPI is neutral on it, they do have some concerns about the ADM and some things, but we feel like we can tweak those issues but they are not opposed to it. It is a bi-partisan bill that we've worked hard on, with Representative Cotham, Representative Blackwell and representative Moore and it is something that we really believe is going to help our community catch students that are falling through the cracks. Making sure that they don't fall too far, getting them back on track to getting a traditional high school diploma and not having to go back years after the fact and get a GED, with that I will be happy to answer any questions. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Do I have any questions? Representative Glazier and Representative [SPEAKER CHANGES] :Graham [SPEAKER CHANGES]: Graham [SPEAKER CHANGES]?? My question is just following Representative Judith's presentation and I think the idea is a good one, I am just curios about what the DPI objections are that are gonna have to be resolved. I wonder if a person from DPI might be available to answer what their concerns are. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Is there someone here from DPI. Do you have a ques..? Go ahead [SPEAKER CHANGES] Alexis Schauss I am the Director of School Business.

the DPI. In section 6, we don't actually have the PCS, so I'm assuming that I'm working off, thank you sir. With a brief review of this, some of the concerns where related to the section 6, which I see now has been modified pertaining to the movement of funds. And if I could take a look at this a little bit longer, that would help. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES]If I could address. [SPEAKER CHANGES]Yes. [SPEAKER CHANGES]Mr. Price fromm DP addressed several concerns with us. A part of the PCS was adjusting as the speaker is, I think, discovering, adjusting some of those concerns. The primary concern is transferring the ADM funds back and forth. Ultimately this does not dictate how that appropriation is made. It would be up to DPI to make that decision, which we believe, satisfies Mr. Price's ultimate concerns. He listed 4 specifically. 3 were completely resolved. The 1 on the ADM, we're basically are saying in the bill, which is why we took out the appropriation. We're going to let you all figure that out, you all know it better than we do. I think they're not ready to say they figured it out, but I think they're okay with the understanding of how we're going to move forward. [SPEAKER CHANGES]Thank you. G. Graham? [SPEAKER CHANGES]To speak on the bill, Madame Chairman. My question was that you recommend in the bill that we make this possible for 3 schools in Mecklenburg County. Mecklenburg County doesn't always look like North Carolina. I think sometimes we might need to look at a school in the East, as well as one in the West, and maybe one in the center of the state to get a better picture of what it is we're trying to do with the educational program. [SPEAKER CHANGES]Representative Jeter. [SPEAKER CHANGES]I believe it's 2 schools, not 3, but I believe that's correct. I don't disagree with you, Representative Graham, that making this necessarily Mecklenburg centric is overall encompassing a great idea. The problem you get is charter schools, as everyone in this rooms aware, I'm not telling a secret, come with some controversy when you talk about encompassing them with existing school board associations. There was a program in New Hanover County that was unsuccessful primarily, in my opinion, because the New Hanover Board of Education did not want to participate in that, understandably. That was their decision. In this case the Charlotte-Mecklenburg School Board has endorsed this proposal and endorsed this plan. Our belief is that once we can successfully implement this, we can take it state wide. [SPEAKER CHANGES]Follow up. [SPEAKER CHANGES]Okay, Representative Lucas. [SPEAKER CHANGES]Thank you, Madame Chair. We all recognize the purpose of charter intrusion is a collaboratory process to see if it would work, and since this will be a charter proposal that's designed to experiment to see what gains we can get, I'm ready to offer a motion. [SPEAKER CHANGES]I have one more, and then I'll take your motion. [SPEAKER CHANGES]Representative Luebke. [SPEAKER CHANGES]Thank you, Madame Chair. A couple of questions specifically for Representative Jeter, and then speak on the bill. Did I hear you say that the intent of this program is to return the students to the public schools? [SPEAKER CHANGES]I think the intent of it, I may have over stepped, I think the intent is to get these children educated and get a high school diploma. I think the likelihood is some of these children, once they get back on track, could return to your traditional public schools. This is not necessarily a program to capture them into the charter school, and keep them there. These schools are only designed to be for about 150 or 200 students, and there's only 2 of them, so there is limited capacity. So, this is not an effort to grow a charter school system, as much as it is to capture students, get them back on track. And my expectation is, though this is speculative on my part, is that some of these children, if not a large percentage of them, would be encouraged to return to the traditional public school system. [SPEAKER CHANGES]Follow up? [SPEAKER CHANGES]Follow up. [SPEAKER CHANGES]One of the criticisms of the charter school system is that is takes children, young people, and then when the young people are having problems in the school, Oh then send these kids back to the public schools. So, the charter school kind of gets the young people, and as soon as there's problems

How they will have a charter school and I realize this is a remedial program but I don't understand why that our schools don't want these children by young people back, not suggesting that the store on the suggestion that indicated they all want them back is not one, to suggest by suggesting is just as many are not gone back to public school for whatever reason our dropout fired again, this is not an effort by charge school system to get people more actively engage pursuing their education, school traditional high school setting for people who cannot get back for whatever reason this program is to find a way to get these children back on track (SPEAKER CHANGES) I'm not suggesting that in all my advocate more I support the charge will challenge children watch your back on track and we must not one suggestion I'm suggesting the purpose of this bill is the children opted out back on track to traditional high school diploma and not a G a T-C, 9 June, like a guy like C, L thanking them I would use of Congress and the deriving the turks and Graham study that there should be one as decent person in the suggestion geographical diversity which are thinking is as important , I can see and enjoy you might be well to try and see how this works with one administrative union and united talent from the school's data suggested that the two schools be quite different from one another demographically another good example and are we have one juror school that is surely strongly a majority why does not allow me why do we have others are alarmingly um, almost 100% African American can I suggest that you take one S days the way Char school one official in aftermarket our schools about us and we're seeing you to chill issues with which she won the NAFTA or GL and suggestions that just a suggestion of an answer any question that represent a collection that you're making a strong nationalist refer two appropriations had record for a lasting remains to be ready for mission station and stay out of four motion: fatal report to the PCs of the 8411 table and regional commission is the four ELS and Federal stand LS BSN had come to represent a teacher NACLESSMI 2 ,(SPEAKER CHANGES) representative born and tell said windows and hospitals and prisons like to read I can ensure postal for us for our nation a mission from Representative Michael NPCSFB 4 S. Robb-favored LS is now properly the fourth they can ensure hostile mime two, PCs is a continuation of Iran for two or strengthen our own relationship between our public schools are work fours adopted in the process were born in this bill sets about the creation of the of North Carolina education workforce integration commission . N points out the intent of the legislature to continue down this path to graduate students are poor and college ready or using these are sharing of resources and to encourage business leaders and businesses to work in conjunction with the support of our own public schools beyond the USS tear PCs as a minority editor of the Forstmann percent and are now we'll have to then- testing on the bottom and chairman of the Chernomyrdin like Monday on behalf of its annual event that the question I have is this review by the apology this bill conducting a long history in IE and applies to make a cell and Michael March will fire report I can access the forest or favorable report, as in bankcard sap, S Mcneil passes and you for this to ??.....

alright the next bill before us is house bill 273 that is Hardister, Malone, Brandon and Stam. Its a PCS do i have a motion, representative Bumgardner makes a motion that bill PCC be before us, all those in favor say aye all those opposed no, the bill is properly before us. [SPEAKER CHANGES] thank you madam chair PCS for house bill 273 just has a few provisions and I'll just go over those briefly. It clarifies that charter schools can borrow money for operational expenses. It's my underStamding that some charter schools are already doing this but its not clarified in the laws, so this could clarify that charter schools can borrow money for operational expenses. This bill requires LEAs to transfer funds to charter schools in a timely fashion, and it requires LEAs to provide information on hows funds were calculated and to my underStamding most LEAs are already doing this but there have been problems and so this would clarify that LEAs have to transfer funds to charter schools within 30 days after the LEA has received the funds and there would be penalty charged at 8% for funds that are delinquent, and 8% because thats the legal interest thats how we came up with that number and the bill would also repeal the restriction on transferring supplemental tax revenue outside the tax district. This simply allows funds to follow the student and then there's another provision in the bill that requires court costs to be awarded to the prevailing party in an action to enforce the transfer of funds from and LEA to a charter and I'm going to yield to representative Stamd to explain that part of the bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] that part of the bill is on page 2 lines 28 to 32 it is attorneys fees but its for either side, its the prevailing side it doesn't pick one side or the other, and then normally judgements are due immediately. [SPEAKER CHANGES] madam chair I'm over on your right, representative wilkes on your right [SPEAKER CHANGES] OK [SPEAKER CHANGES] we are operating from PCS right? [SPEAKER CHANGES] That is correct [SPEAKER CHANGES] we do not have that have it over here [SPEAKER CHANGES] ok just a moment. does everyone not have? just a. . . if you dont have one would you raise your hand so they can get them to you. . . representative wilkes do you have. . . OK, alright representative Stam [SPEAKER CHANGES] yes I'm just explaining page 2 lines 28 to 32, so its an either way attorney fee cost shifting provision it doesn't favor one side or the other. It does have on lines 30 to 32 in the one of the litigations where an LEA was required to pay money the judge says OK you got 3 years to pay it and normally you have to pay judgements immediately but I guess you could have a case where a small LEA just couldn't do it. So this allows a judge but does not require a judge to give them up to 3 years to do it as long as its in equal monthly payments. So that's that. [SPEAKER CHANGES] representative bale [SPEAKER CHANGES] than you madam chair, representative Stam answered my question for me I was ?? reciprocity [SPEAKER CHANGES] alrighty representative Adams [SPEAKER CHANGES] thank you madam chair this is a question. Representative Hardister you mention that this bill would allow the schools to borrow funds for operations? Is that currently the, you know, what public schools do? They borrow funds to operate? [SPEAKER CHANGES] For public schools I'm not sure, staff do you know can you answer? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Staff can you answer the question? [SPEAKER CHANGES] To our knowledge public schools or traditional schools are not borrowing for operational expenses, they get an appropriation from the state [SPEAKER CHANGES] followup [SPEAKER CHANGES] followup

And, even if the mansion that the funds from the students to the schools and when it's done a good and so they follow the students back if they decide to depend to a school hallway and just to clarify when the selected as if there's a provision unit pertains to subliminal tax districts into margins are usually in cities and what happens there is say that you are very tender shoulder and resolve to you within the submittal taxes for the children go to which our schools also the district essential your tax dollars are paying for the sawmill tax would fall city charter school and address your questions or it was due to a fumble them back on two sides to come back to the public until the staff on, Chris north's Nordstrom shed a tear take a chance at least , chrysalis and fiscal research, if adopted had no use the shortage of cash , built one provision that concerns me is the only 8% increase in net losses taxpayer money to be used to paying interest and(SPEAKE R CHANGES) I was trying to come up with an alternative penalties of the Wednesday and the difference in the majors mail, people becoming one of the field on the other penalties to make sure that the sample from in lieu of 8% which would be taxpayer money funding but a person like it's a fine day of money on U.N. body receive ballots were for the money that you have to have more of the dissipation of getting ways to we used a percent oppose refuse to all judgments in North Carolina feel maybe at the creators of a percent with one exception that is for cities and counties there for a 6% of teachers or unpaid penalties place like some we prefer a percent but it's enough to fool it for the fourth 116 percent of the week where percent inflation are you guys are versatile and languages answer questions about the procedure-taking and share my questions for stabbed in the particular one in the home hell ?? (SPEAKER CHANGES) page two of lines 23 and 24, is the provisions of section C and protect those lines to change the firm all you see it from different than the sugar creek decision and a cell with other funds that opening of that they had , representing his 19 straight line in terms of the Isa are available for many images simply require reporting and to the charter school, different funds that are leading PC, many of the county's animal prints spent five and 115 C March 26 at her people expenditures calculated alone, make use of the Pakistan is there any additional change in the new PCs to 73 , that would on provide additional funds have to be given to the charter schools are not already require breakdown of law , any definite tests that some of June stand I get a E.T. that turned the actual fines would BB, many from the supplemental taxes that would be going outside taxing districts, DM exch five back an additional funds would be transferred or a representative of guess my question regards the non supplemental of fun to browse the tax on exact are small set a goal and two operating five stories that go into assets outside of the tax district of the offering, refunds to any more questions, just understand the SMS eight rally that like CM believe we have two speakers with two different charter HMAI staging AM??..............

2 minutes by discouraging them, lawyer in Charlotte, try the 25 referring to the charter school cases that led to some legislation that is essentially from overturn the results of our charter schools successes with the amendments with respect to the sawmill tax questions as answers of bonds falling from Dole Councilman Les Moonves take the guy out makes a decision about whether soon as the beginning of the year unless the state labor Congress local money regarding the money would come back with it all comes back as Sony happens on a client of four would make the calls the following year job comes back to sustain the sawmill sex slaves system into job comes back before the cut off during the year the money would never leave the system and supplemental tax Lien was put down after a victory over charter school called a lady of the national 12 years ago it was, essentially to stop the funds from falling against Alabama school in the bottom county for kids whose parents have a contract with the answer is no supplemental tax funds to follow suit and a major comeback with the students that it just depends on when the call for maker's with respect to lose someone of funds from a year into any other questions, I think I know great deal about the size of living in walnut street ?? (SPEAKER CHANGES) Supreme Court and knows something about as long , and the hassle and nights evil thank UNNIM fully as someone from the allowance or someone from the public school track again appreciate the art committee of indulging in a newspaper Mitchell Monday and the founding trustee of three jurors rules, we serve underprivileged children in rural and inner city areas am also a member of the course of pointed to the torch to advisory committee and the wishers military bands given to the charity of North Carolina lounge, Turner schools of thought like to have cited that the all the lines of foliage turns to be a business analyst for 200% and I hear an NT to have anyone(SPEAKER CHANGES) L's and lee Ann landers within North Carolina school for assistance of a blandly in line with the North Carolina school boards association we obviously did not see the PCs until we get in here today we do have two concerns are prime a concern S the striking in the language dealing with the supplemental taxes that language was put into statutes that way because space taxes are actually faded on by the set offense about taxing district to support the schools located with M\C jurisdiction if you strike this language that money would then potentially flail about cited that taxing jurisdiction we the citizens of back community have actually taken for the tax the other issue that we are concerned about SBA percent penalty com and we're not quite sure what a potential desolation tied at 1:00 PM Et think that 8% is April 18 at 10 under 6% might make a little more sense if you're dealing with county fives and that the 6% is the canon EML but we do have some concern about any penalty at all banking and play represented option for Marcia Ventura any more questions to peppery at MSN Service district and it said PCs a movie of the of a higher court to PCs and five-year review health ministers representing those four, which were for hospital to 73-5 and ceo of the OS SNA them to annex ENN Maxtor EL M represent just res two B L's that that hospital five 20th in morning thinking that you're taking in the community are the only film and possible five 12th is we four simple basically all were ??.......

is taking the four board of education appointments to the community college, and giving them to the county commissioners. And the Central Carolina Community College is a multi-campus community college and Harnett County nor Chatham County have any board of education member appointments to the community college. With that-- [SPEAKER CHANGES] Have any questions? Representative Pittman. [SPEAKER CHANGES] For a motion at the appropriate time. Does anyone have any questions? If not, it's the appropriate time. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Madame Chair. I move a favorable report to House Bill 512, and I don't see any referrals. [SPEAKER CHANGES] We have a motion before us for a favorable report for House Bill 512. All those in favor say aye; all opposed? House Bill 512. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you again. Ladies and gentlemen of the committee-- [SPEAKER CHANGES] House Bill 491. [SPEAKER CHANGES] It is a PCS, Madame Chair. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Do I have a motion for a PCS? Representative Jeter makes a motion to have the PCS for 512 before us. All those in favor, say aye; all opposed, no. It's properly before us. 491. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Madame Chair, and members of the committee, House Bill 491--basically what it does--is it takes the school resource officers and puts them under the command of the sheriff's department. Our sheriff currently is doing a grant process--we're currently looking to expand the program, and what we're doing is, over the past ten years, those funds for the SRO's--the at risk--we're going to take those funds and let it follow the SRO's; it will just be under the sheriff's leadership. Keep in mind, in off-seasons, the sheriff's will be able to use those SRO's for other programs to help out in the community. I think this is a great way to leverage our money and help our community at large. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Madame Chairman? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Glazier. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Question for the bill sponsor, please. Is this a request from the Lee County Schools--do they support the request since it's Lee County School money. It looks like it's being transferred to make sure it supports the positions including apparently time by these officers not at the Lee County Schools. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you for your question, Representative Glazier. This request came from the county commissioners; a resolution sent to my office. And yes, the school board does oppose it. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The school board opposes--May I add follow-up, please? Follow-up? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Follow-up. [SPEAKER CHANGES] And so the school board opposes it, the Lee County Commissioner support it; I'm assuming--well I don't want to assume--Lee County Sheriff's position? [SPEAKER CHANGES] He would gladly take the program and expand it. I think he's even looking with the two grants we currently have under process at putting more officers in the schools. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Torbett? [SPEAKER CHANGES] For a motion, Madame Chairman. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Do we have anyone--any other questions? Okay--in just a moment. Representative McManus. [SPEAKER CHANGES] We have a school system that has the SRO's from the sheriff's department. There is differing opinions on how this works best. But, the biggest issue we've run into is when there is a local issue and the law enforcement officer is needed by the sheriff's department, they're pulled from the school . That has frequently created problems for our school system, to have them pulled on short notice and then have an event at the school and them not be present. We've also had issues with lack of control over the officers that were in our schools and the quality of those officers in our schools. And, I believe someone is here from Lee County school board that would like to speak to this issue. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Bell? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Madame Chairman. I just wanted to say the same thing that she said. That often whenever you have them in the school system and something happens in the community, they are pulled away by the sheriff's department, and leaving the schools without any kind of protection whatsoever. That something we have to guard against, like [??] work very closely with your sheriff's department. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Stone, would you like to-- [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes, I'd like to get a chance to respond. Just want the committee to understand that currently in North Carolina, 61% of the school resource officers are operated by the sheriff's department, and currently only 5% are by special police. Now the good news for the sheriff's department, when they get into the SRO position, is they're able to communicate back, but only with the community. Currently the SRO's and special police answer to the police or to the superintendents. But they're only allowed by law for ten major crimes. They're all major. But with the sheriff's offices being involved, they're able to communicate a whole lot more; not only with the parents within the school system, but the community at large of what's going on in our community. You're seeing this shift statewide where we're going [end of data]

looking at SROs about a Sheriff’s Department, and I urge you to support the bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I have Representative Whitmire and then someone in our audience. Representative Whitmire. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Madam Chair, thank you. I simply would like, if they have comments, to hear from either the School Board Association or the School Administrators Association, just from a subject matter expertise input, please. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I will ask at the end. Does anyone else…? Representative Lambeth. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I was just going to add, Madam Chairman, that the Wilson and Forsyth County schools had these same issues. What we did was we actually developed an RFP and we bid it out. What resulted from that was the standards and expectations that we required, and then the municipalities also bid on it and we actually allocated those schools in the city to the police and those in the county to the sheriff, and it’s actually worked out very well. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Is there anybody else in the committee? Representative Graham – G. Graham. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes, madam. Thank you, Madam Chairman. I just wanted to state that when there’s a shortage of teachers or should there be some other school problem, the first place the superintendent is going to look is pulling those positions in, and will the grant funds that you’re using here or that you’re proposing to use to fund the position, will that grant always be available? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Stone. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes, thank you for a chance to reply. The grant funding covers the first three years at a reduced rate each year, and then the county takes over the other part of the new officers. Keep in mind by putting the SROs under the Sheriff’s Department, this will allow our School Board, our principals and teachers to concentrate on education and a lot less dealing with issues and troubles in the community and the schools. [SPEAKER CHANGES] If there are no more from the committee, we have… Anyone would like to speak? I understand we have someone here from the School Board. You are recognized. State your name and position. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Am I on? Thank you, Madam Chairman. I am Len Smith. I am Chairman of Lee County Board of Education and I’m here to oppose this bill. Currently, as the bill indicates, the school resource officers work for our schools. They answer to the principals and to the administrative unit. We find that that’s working quite well, and obviously school safety is a huge issue at this point. Certainly Newtown brings to attention what a huge issue that is potentially, and we feel that the school resource officers employed by the school gives us the best opportunity to protect our students. Obviously if we move them to the Sheriff’s Office, they’re going to spend a certain amount of time outside of our schools. Perhaps more importantly, I’m amazed that we’re standing here discussing this at the state legislature when there’s been absolutely no conversation in Lee County between the local government people and the School Board and/or the administrative unit. This seems like it’s a local issue, and to discuss it in the legislature having no discussion at home in Lee County just amazes me, and I would ask the committee to oppose this bill. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, and Representative Stone, would you like to reply? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Just a quick comment, real quick. This bill, I’d remind you again, did come to us in the form of a resolution from the County Commissioners. I also want to echo one of the other things that Chairman Smith spoke about. School safety is important. It’s probably one of the most important things we’ll look at as we move forward public education, and I don’t know that we can put anyone more qualified in our schools than a sheriff’s deputy that has not only rights for the campus, but he can actually go off campus if we have an issue where an individual goes off campus, and I’ll give you an example. Currently we have people direction traffic in front of our schools that don’t even have jurisdiction in the highway out there, so there multiple problems by not having a uniformed officer in those classes that could help in multiple ways, and I did talk to our sheriff about making sure that we had our officers in our school, and he said to me that that would be his top priority, to keep those officers in the schools. [SPEAKER CHANGES] We have another speaker in the back. Your name and who you’re with. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Jeff Moss, Superintendent, Lee County Schools. I think this would actually make our schools less safe, and I’ll give you some prime examples. There is some misperceptions. First off, the state funds SROs to us and we have our special police for ten months. That does not allow those individuals, if they’re employed by the Sheriff’s Department, any additional time. They cannot work outside of the hours unless they’re not working in our schools, so if a Sheriff’s Department decides

to use those individuals, outside of the state funding, as it currently exists, they would have to take them out of our schools. If an emergency occurs, and that is the officer that is closest to the disruption, whether it be a domestic issue or anything else, they will be pulled out of our schools, because that's the sheriff's number one responsibility, to provide safety and security for the entire county. When that officer leaves, if you're in New Town or if you're any other school, without that office around campus if I'd truly wanted to cause harm, I could create a distraction, pull that officer away and then go in and do whatever I wanted to do. Right now, that could not happen, because that licensed law enforcement officer, let me repeat that, licensed law enforcement officer, they have the same training that a sheriff's deputy has. They have the same credentials. They're carrying a weapon. They're on our campus, and they're in our buildings the entire time. They're doing our extracurricular activities, they're doing everything for us. So they are positioned to provide a safer environment than anything else. So it would not make our schools safer. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you. That has brought us two more, three more questions. Represent Shephard. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mrs. Chair. I just wanna make a comment. In our county, our schools are using resource officers that are furnished by the county sheriff's department. And I don't know the situation in Lee county, but in our county that works quite well, and those resource officers, as far as I know are there the entirety of the school day. They go in the morning when the school opens, and they're there until the school closes in the afternoon. And some of these same resource officers are there also to support football games and extracurricular activities and so on and so forth. So I can't speak for Lee county, but I can say in our county the sheriff's department and the school system works quite well together, and it's a very good setup in case there is an emergency, because sometimes when incidents happen, they have to take people downtown, and so that's already covered. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Luebke. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, madame chair. I have a question for the superintendent or a board member. I don't know which of the [SPEAKER CHANGES] OK. He's available. Which you like to ask your question? [SPEAKER CHANGES] See they're both there, maybe which, would like to respond. Yes ma'am. My question is, to what extent the county commissioners consult with you before they pass this resolution. What kind of conversation did you as a school board or school superintendent have with the board of commissioners. Can you explain that process please? [SPEAKER CHANGES] We've had no consultation. We have no conversations. There's been no communications whatsoever between local government and the board, to my knowledge. [SPEAKER CHANGES] And that goes as well for us, from the county manager. We realized the resolution was passed after it was passed. There was no consolation before, and there's been no discussion after they passed the resolution, either. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Follow-up. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Well, just quickly to make a statement on the bill. Representative Stone, I'm astounded, truly, and this is not personal, but I'm astounded that a representative would move forward like this without any conversation between the school board, school superintendent and the county commissioner. It's just astounding to me. It's just more meddling. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Would you like to respond? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yet, I don't find it surprising, at all, representative Luebke, how you feel. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Iler. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, madame chair. I may be redundant with what represent Shepherd said, but in our county, the Friday that New Town happened, Saturday morning, the sheriff and the superintendent had already made the decision to put a resource officer in every elementary school. We already had them in the high school and middle school. We have 17 schools on ?? county, and they were talking to each other, I'm sure Friday night. And Saturday morning they had already made a decision, and there's a big black car and a resource officer in front of every elementary school, and they're still there. And they're gonna be. The county commissioners fully support with appropriations, and all that's needed to keep them there. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Speciale. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mine was already answered. I was just kind of astounded that the school board and a county commissioners are not talking about the safety of the schools. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Fisher. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, madame chair. I just wanted to maybe make a

that may be you. you might even consider displacing the spell because you maybe need a chance to brain that can commissioners, the school board superintendent and the sheriffsdepartment gather around this issue on the conversation really might be healthy, Change speaker: but the liked his response on Antarctic County commissioners out. talk to this year 's department.this bill was actually at December seventh think it was her six in Lee County. it's been discussed multiple times. now I know I is a recounting when you told school projects are movingmoney from other schools over to the county. there is a bit of this agreement, and we know that they comes with part of the job so out as odd in the plaintiff displaces feel and lookforward for favorable vote from the Change speaker: committee represented Lucas. Change speaker: thank you, Madam chair, I'm a bit amazed and puzzled that we are talking about safety of school kids, and we areconsulting with those which are split really providing the state 's Fujian sets the school board and the superintendent that allow this gets the likeness of the second time we do thiskind of problem we had one floor couple months ago relative to a lesson school board members and seems like we need to do a little local communication before we bring these thingsthe state level Change speaker: presented Garner recommends Change speaker: shared question for the sponsor if I have a problem with school and they need immediate assistance. they call the school board of the share Change speaker: currently has home with school board under our program with SRO program intercourse. this year 's media backup from all over County family situations, it tricks the need of the SROprogram. Change speaker: I have a horn and Daughtry and indexing and Wilkins representative form, Change speaker: Madam chair, I just want to comment on something set will go to know about the schools beingless safe. if you have a sheriff 's officer there. I can quite acknowledged that insofar as not like you have a well-trained, experienced organization sheriff department well-regulated, butalso there's a divisional responsibilities that every quasimilitary organization follow so that you don't have people run and off and leaving your school unprotected unintended as well asif there's in an activity after hours, so to speak of police officers rush please officers or police officers. they haven't a sworn duty to protect from Change speaker: Representative Duncan Change speaker: of motion a movie. Bill and I will mention is that sorry missing message as Anaïs said last night 's event, call for. there is a motion before us for outside forty four Change speaker: # send him so. no one can.sorry of the guys on that list just barely made it I think I also recall the representative Widmar was asking if we could hear from the school boards Association is still possible. Change speaker: yes,anyone in the Baptist Change speaker: good morning again William minor with the school boards Association. we have two concerns about this bill as well on the first is that this bill is precedent-setting. this will be the firsttime that I am aware out that this General assembly directly appropriates money from the state to local administrative units and then requires them to make a direct transfer to anothergovernmental entity. we believe that that is a bad precedent to set, and that you will start to see lots of bills, not just dealing with school resource officers coming from differentlocalities shifting funds off in different directions to which you have given to local school administrative units to operate their school system. secondly, we do have concerns about thisfrom a safe

The aspect there is a fairly robust conversation going on amongst school districts, across the state as to how to best staff their schools to provide the safest invironment possible, and to make sure that those officers are not only trained to the standards to be sworn law inforcement officers, but the deal with some of the extremely unique situations within schools. One of the areas that we have a number of issues is dealing with children that are special needs, and that takes very special training both of teachers and of law inforcement to be able to deal with those types of situations where they escalate. And so we have a lot of districts who are having this conversation, we actually have 2 districts in the state that have special legislation creating their own police force, which goes a little bit beyond what Lee County is currently doing. Both Moore County and Charlotte Mecklenburg have their own police force. A lot of districts are now talking to them about the advantages and disadvantages of that model. We would ask that you leave this to the Lee County Board of Education and let them make the decision that is best for their school community, thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] If there's no other remarks, we'll call the roll. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Adams. Arp. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Bell. Brandon. Brown. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Bryan. Bumgardner. Carney. Cleveland. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Collins. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Cotham. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Daughtry. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Dixon. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Dockham. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Elmore. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Fisher. Gill. Glazier. Charles Graham. George Graham. Hall. Hall. Hardister. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Horn. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Iler. Mcmanus. Dobson. Jeter. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Jones. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Jordan. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Lambeth. Lucas. Luebke. Malone. Martin. Michaux. Pittman. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Presnell. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Riddell. Ross. Saine. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Schaffer. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Shepard. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Speciale. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Stam. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Tine. Tolson. [SPEAKER CHANGES] ?? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Torbett. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Turner. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Warren. Whitmire. Wilkins. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Bill Passes 29 to 18. 28 to 19, I beg your pardon. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Madam chair, thank you members of the committee. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Now we're gonna have, for discussion. House Bill 287. Representative Lambeth. ?? [SPEAKER CHANGES] I know the meeting's been long and I just really want to make this fairly quickly. I think every couple years this is something that you ought to ask yourself and there ought to be some discussion about, so that's the purpose of this. My bill recommends raising the age from 16 to 17 in North Carolina. Just so you're aware that states all around us are changing the age and increasing the age. All our border states have ages that are 17 or 18. There now are 35

The states and territories of us who have eight is greater than 16 in 1955 we raise the 18 North Carolina from 14 to 16 one does not change since the athlete each year of them were in full session the salty something that you think about decide whether we change are not on this makes that are reviews in terms of value of some will say that usually not much of the impact of got to believe that there will be some positive impacts on children who are not that they each had 16 to make up for precision keep no year we can honestly say them from the media of dropout rate of good news is North Carolina continues to do good things with dropout prevention of 6 to 6 lead off of 6.3% 3.12 women right direction I do believe afford to be the education state and we need to believe in the nation, believe raising the drop rate is one of those on which marks the wheel of cake stand on most of the Duarte; formation of the original two, just here for discussion with any of the questions Ron L its agents chairman and chairman of personal and business there, young people most affected schools worth the cost of the state funding for the above all questions of investment deal with (SPEAKER CHANGES) Debby Caine, signed with 17 accede to some of the cemetery is really would have much impact even fewer AIDS and so the system that was really no impact and again the fall was probably be much impact retaining more signs of person ever to end the ban against the conclusion that number of studies and referees our own a lot , I'm not certain why we would be discussed in the interest of the most impact was really course charted 18 and 17, brown is exactly the country's top dollar to close the money just something we should discuss full session ended up chamber of my district data stored on one legislative cars and Philip any dealings bring it up for discussion of the government has lost feelings about whether should be raised on since you were here in the last fall session additional states have raised the eighth when you think this, along with competition would be one of the few states with great 63 -C. Graham does make a comment on this question would certainly this to the comedy, and we're on moving towards 21st century on when I was growing up on the farm on I am in my friends to drop out of school age 16 and an opportunity to work on the farm in view of things on the back some of the fathers of this woman had them on the phone working on now business to sleaze school now there is there's no such opportunity for those kids to go work on the family farm within the business of; (SPEAKER CHANGES) the years ago and I think it's time that we on the whole to responsible on demand on a day from work one day. Ability to get themselves ready four on the equivalent of a thing we've done things this legislature of the session to enhance them the support that , I do believe is a good move for a correction I think it's all four thinking I do have a concern that within the class one misdemeanor on, question is a unit children you used 17 years of age, still on the via the supervisors possibility that has some of the students have mounted on determine if one reason than a 1 to 10 schools and one whole responsible let the class will miss the none of us have watched in the absence of a showman of all stand a backlash when this thing here would fall to the parents are insured savings and the children who are not in compliance with the compulsory attendance phone on the all are on an understanding is the a wall of this on a separate on ??...

BC kids some half, CYCA meanwhile Graham, whatever its said becoming fully free arts district spelling bee winner is a published author M Collins nearest in the community thought CSF, CICA has specialized lands after imparting up any ICS NLG couples with NJKTC staff thirds have not made up of a device that TCSAPC 2 D sell a typical Eli CAC sales growth of one E. Armour and for example an average and we're not dealing with your CCS S. Cordero the Sandinista 75% or fly here less Eleanor it SS 15 NC part that CTS or that are now the three E NMS. You only NICAS Mansour banks unaccountability tools west and its participants in the detail in identification program open, finance Korea, or nine in many think the set top when CSX we are all selected opal to dump for its SMS police are because we were not for profit before the padres MB academic Dean Kamen, (SPEAKER CHANGES) Siemens AG stays and does that to supply the opportunity scholarship, 9:00 AM ocean after El Leon ENS a CK 9 and the performance M Ron EL as they could share of IBM senior and the freemen with arts teacher from the west side of Forsyth county school system or Ashton Michael we're working exclusively was the most qualified for free and reduced much or the 22 years than I were completely programs before and after school programs a charter school from S16 years the public school system to watch your with Cuba to date is not based on research and out of a personal experience and tamales experiences are worded parents and Guardians of at least the resource into public schools the best that they have with all that they have a witness this trouble to form field trips from a school supplies could form a table and people for their heads and are shooting for most of them there are no additional forms available in the fossil lawsuit the cost of tuition for private schools given the current state of our economy, argue that very few will benefit from this legislation at what cost of north Carolina’s public school system that this legislation to pass up an even worse to be getting all the trouble dismantling of public education in North Carolina and the city is built artistic freedom and smart students in our state next year will be open to all students with apartment being as commercial free reduce worse population is the most of all students and this be honest about it ultimately bad as the state to provide tax breaks for Bolshevik already a four a choice proponents argue this bill will provide abortion be the most promising to Vargas last week the choice and watch closely with the product to steal a mission to the data presented the suggested public schools are failing minority students instead of using that data to attack public schools are we using it to determine how we just the challenges for public schools and at the stewards yellow symbol before you education stickler for mortgages to parties is debating the merits of one school system will be other we should be addressed much questions and concerns and which we discussed and ideas practices and policies have proven effective about this legislative session in North Carolina house of representatives has exhibited with his two were connected the economics of the regardless of party affiliation to alter the north to stakeholders and interested parties have all like pasta to a polls this deal maker and two mistrials M TM I's five ADM (SPEAKER CHANGES) Pastor Carson did morning and scanners of the committee and carol van den berg with professional educators and North Carolina DNC device that is president of PNC ECT charity care to the full bar can you can tell from the county last week about the big a senate committee that did not get the opportunity and is unable to genesis Morningside offer the thing is to have 5¢ Ali Sami could ADM because they seem to provide money to CC someone that name of this tells a peeling the content has a slight concerned with MSN and that the cost of implementation of the scholarships would be nearly $100,000,000 of taxpayer money to sponsor the far better spent on strengthening are types of public schools by providing additional wreck