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House | May 16, 2013 | Committee Room | Apprpriations

Full MP3 Audio File

Come to order. The committee will come to order. The members will take their seats. We'll get going this morning and get you out of here. First we wanna recognize our pages if they're here. Robert Jenkins from Mecklemburg county sponsored by speaker Tillis. Curtis Johnson from Cureone County sponsored by representative Steignburg. Oath McCeathan from Boford county sponsored by representative Tine. And Sarah Newbie from Wade County sponsored by representative Hurley. There you are. Ok Very good. Of course our sgt at arms today, Yon Bay. Bob Rossy, Joe Crooke, Marvin Lee, Antoine Marshall and Martha Gadisen. First we only have three bills on the agenda I think these will be, move along relatively expeditiously. And our first bill is house bill 980. It is a PCS. And representative Brown moves that the PSC be in front of us for discussion purposes without objection and chairman Burr is recognized to explain the bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you chairman Dollar. This bill seeks to address the current fiscal year that we're in. The Medicaid gap that we have as German Dollar said last night, there seems to be an annual occurrence that we're working to address. This has been something that has been a long term problem. And a large sum of the funds needed to fill the gap today that we have is due to a structural problem with forecasting that governor McCoy's administration discovered from former Governor Purdue's administration when it comes to putting together the numbers that the general assembly uses for Medicaid. And this bill will tap into the extra collections that are fortunately available today as well as unspent funds that we need to close this bill. This is just another example of why we need to work with governor Mccoy to try to reform Medicaid in this state and make sure that we get the spending under control. I'd be happy to take any questions Mr Chairman or perhaps you want staff to address the details of exactly where the funds are coming from. [SPEAKER CHANGES] We'll see if.. Representative Speciale you had a question?[SPEAKER CHANGES] I just wanted to make a statement Mr chairman I don't have a problem with the bill but if this is a problem representative Burr, it has existed because of certain things. Not because of any person or anybody at all. We have always suffered and I tried to tell yall last year you were gonna run a 400 million dollar deficit on Medicaid. I've been in the same situation and I had to cover it the same way. It just happens every year and thats because of the forecast and whats happens during the year to create this. So you cant blame it on, its happening and somewhere down the line its gonna happen again. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Further comments or questions? If not, representative Blackwell. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I dont wanna drag this out. But I wanna follow up on representative Michaux inquire well actually his comment. Representative Burr, can you tell us, do we have any indication as to whether other states have this same problem and that nobody can figure this out. And that every year its nobody's fault and that its just one of those things that happens? Or have we not looked at other states to determine if this is something somebody's doing well? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Well obviously growth with Medicaid is a problem around the country. As when it comes to the gaps that tend to happen at the end of the fiscal year, I cant speak to that. But I know we've worked over the last three years to close that gap. There's a slight set back as I said, due to what governor McCoys administration discovered. Which was a forecasting error that had been used in previous years may have potentially caused some of those gaps in the past. So hopefully with what they have discovered this will address the issue and we can continue to work to close the gap. It obviously is difficult because this is an entitlement program and you're limited and some respects to that. But if we can do a better job at forecasting and those things then hopefully...

[SPEAKER] It will not be as a major of a problem in the future. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Follow up. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Follow up. Maybe you said before and I missed it. Of the money that we are appropriating here, do we have an idea approximately what portion of that is related to this forecasting error that we've discovered? [SPEAKER CHANGES] I think staff should have that. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Susan Jacobs. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Susan, do you have the piece of it that is the, what’s the forecasting issue? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Members of Appropriations Repres . . . Mr. Chairman. I think roughly it was a little over a hundred million dollars that was associated with the forecasting error and about a hundred and twenty million I think is the most recent document I saw from State budget was associated with a short fall for claims. [SPEAKER CHANGES] And I might add it was around $118 million of it that’s actually what’s called the thirteenth payment for Federal Drug rebates and what Representative Michaux you will probably remember this. You all took the twelfth Federal drug repayment and you tied it over to the next year. And I see you shaking your head, yes. So, this bill finally fixes that. [SPEAKER CHANGES] You hope. [SPEAKER CHANGES] [laugh] Trying to fix it, people’s messes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] It wasn't a mess. [SPEAKER CHANGES] All right. Representative West is recognized. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I’d like to make a motion, Mr. Speaker. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman is recognized. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I move that we give the proposed Committee Substitute for House Bill 980 a favorable report, unfavorable to the original bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] You've heard the motion for the discussion, further debate. If not, all those in favor say aye. [aye]All opposed say no. The ayes have it. The bill is agreed to. Our next bill is House Bill 767, Brass to Class Act. And Representative Murry is recognized to explain the bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] It’s a PCS and Representative Avila moves that the PCS be properly before the Committee without objection. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’m proud to present this legislation to you to help encourage retired military personnel and honorably discharged military personnel to encourage them to become teachers and principles in our school system. I’m joined with Representatives Whitmire, Szoka and Pierce on this legislation. We have worked with this legislation with the North Carolina Association of Educators and the Troops to Teach Division in the Department of Public Instructions to develop a program which directs the State Board of Education to establish rules for awarding credit for prior work experience given to certain veterans for the purpose of placing them on State salary schedules. Patsy Pierce on staff has helped us strongly with this legislation and we’re just trying to encourage lateral entry for our military personnel to become teachers and giving them experience credit. If they have teaching experience in the military, we’re going to give them credit for that and develop rules to help further and keep North Carolina the most military friendly state in the country and encourage our military personnel to come back and serve in our education system. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Floyd. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Chair, this is a good bill since the 87th Air Borne Division is the Center of the Universe. At the appropriate time, I’d like to move for a favorable report. [SPEAKER CHANGES] All right. We’ll hold that motion for just a moment. I think we have a couple of other hands. Representative Bell. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just wanted to ask a question. How does this differ from the lateral entry program that we have right now? You know, I know you can place people on a certain pay level based on their experiences. I mean, we've been doing that for several years. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Certainly, the current lateral entry program is bachelor’s degree experience forward. And this addresses situations where we have military personnel who have training and experience prior to earning their bachelor’s degree. And we’re trying to give them . . . [SPEAKER CHANGES] . . . or some specific rules for military personnel

DMZ Canavan military training steering and tried to obtain their bachelor's degree from 9:00 AM southern experts agree that when the MMX redskins to play on their salary schedule of her gender shepherd ball a question from bill sponsors Jerry Sloan said this is to have required to bash as greedy still have four good for the best way the district of arsenic bring that its chairman, Representative Murray can you possibly give me an example of why the level than nine TG work experience would be that would possibly be used for a future feature certainly a believers and so, could easily be that focused on society example versions of the issue was chairman for hundreds of this church and served as Chairman S. Eliot there's some Health Services are not commission offers courses I were leadership is caught in the 2599 commission officers in some cases officers said (SPEAKER CHANGES) they do have that relevance and teaching leadership in teaching skills things like that but as a popular misconception that brought on by a movie set some pet to keep the military are used and followed because you just ignore them a false and that's not really true I'm talking with CIA and the teachers and the elephants one of the issues that military planes and classroom this organization leadership so you have the skills required to teach we also have to have some skills in dealing with people or their nine children or their dolls and the skills that we fired and a small tree branch in the classroom is exactly that, they look people in all such situations where things can always go away want nothing ever goes away on military soldiers two of Unseld chaotic those situations nine months sooner questions are: face so that they have the skills to be the sole that's really what this talk about two years same year military service prepared to the legislature that has yet to be some urgent appears that is chairman of the two smells a deal could be a part of that of former military myself (SPEAKER CHANGES ) I know that we look carefully spread the wealth of experience the question: myself I would finish its take up a creek we can tell worthy of a different view of things that really gets a question with the discipline and caught the skills necessary to help people in the decade of steady clip from the military and in the steepest rate of medical breakthroughs be excluded from cell is to support this deal thank our Senator Paul Bemis chair and I am so glad to see this bill Coulter has historically been a group of young folks in the country that come out of school there, and leave the box on the they are able to go to college went away with the duties are the career.(SPEAKER CHANGES) Are contributing the minimal make great features of this summit is coupled with the own registry and military make or break a moment of community arts center that will our center for taking this chairman-one a full play your comment about the military preparing you four legislature was a church or once compared to the ones compare more to talk politics toward the prince said that more you can be killed only 17 politics many, but you should represent equipment PC so that owns their cost money is one of the other aspects of the spill that feed these incredible value and IDC supportability would promise sponsors on is there's so much formal and for that matter with the informal hands on just like experiences were year in a leadership laboratory and sometimes the highest crucible suppression which are still dealing with people of the differences still sits in SS one of the key pieces of the spill in word two levees that multiple on opportunities people from out of military is the potentially and alleys were detained but two emphasizing the guys were ??....

[Speaker changes.]...is gonna work on this very well. I mean, the sentiment, the exchange between their key people is tremendous to be able to make it very...to get your mind around "you don't know what you don't know" and someone who has had multiple formal training items that are very relevant. You gotta know where to look in order to give the credit for that and I'm not sayin' this very short and I'll be quiet with that but this definitely helps expedite giving credit where credits due for credentialing to expedite someone making a lateral entry to go into teaching and that's a very big piece of this bill. [Speaker changes.] Representative Floyd is recognized for his motion. [Speaker changes.] Mister Chair, if I could just make a comment prior to makin' a motion. [Speaker changes.] Yes, sir. [Speaker changes.] I sit here to my right here and I see my colleague here is clicking on this machine here, whatever she call it but Representative Cleveland can bear witness to when we was in the military, this was already in place. What has happened now is that it has been enhanced and that's what that military community brings...that skill set. And so, Mister Chair, I move for a favorable report for the PCS and unfavorable to the original House Bill 767. [Speaker changes.] Members of the committee have heard the motion. Further discussion, further debate. If not, the question before the committee is approval of the proposed Committee Substitute for House Bill 767. All in favor say "aye". (Ayes.) All opposed say no. The ayes have it and the bill is agreed to. [Speaker changes.] Thank you, Mister Chairman, thank you, members of the committee. [Speaker changes.] The last item we have is House Bill 560, economical school bus replacement criteria. Before Representative Arp starts, I want to make sure that we explain why this...why we're not gonna take a vote on this per se. This bill won't come to the floor by we wanted to air this bill as a potential addition to the House's budget. And so, what we're doing is...come on up, Representative Arp. What the House is doing, what we're doing is getting the sense of the committee on this and we have the PCS in front of you. Last time, our apologies, we were discussing the bill and the PCS was not actually before the committee, which will adopt. [Speaker changes.] Representative McElraft? [Speaker changes.] To make a quick announcement. I know some of you are in environment and environment will meet at 9:30 and the room has been changed to 544 again. Thank you. [Speaker changes.] So, if you need to go to environment in a coupla minutes, feel free to do that. We do need a motion, we'll take it from Representative McElraft. Proposed Committee Substitute for 560 B in front of the committee for discussion purposes without objection. So ordered. Representative Arp. [Speaker changes.] Thank you, Ladies and Gentlemen, I appreciate the opportunity to come back before you with the PCS before you now so I'd also like to say that this has been a long evolution. When I was on the School Board as Chairman, back last year, even began working on this...it didn't get into last year's bill. This year, we worked on it, I'd like to commend my fellow co-sponsors, Mr. Szoka...Representative Szoka, Representative Floyd and Representative Lucas. So you can see that this is a bi-partisan effort and I believe it's a very common sense effort to just simply change the way that we procure school buses and we can save substantial amounts of money. As you...what I...just a recap...what this bill proposes to do...right now there's not any statutory guidelines. DPI has some guidelines and it's currently 20 years or 200,000 miles. What this bill does is put in statutory language to gain a little bit more use out of these buses. I don't know of a single family that hasn't driven their car a little bit longer in this time of recession in order to save some money....maybe defer a little bit of things in order to save some money. This bill basically does that but it does it, in my opinion, in a very responsible way. What it does is it says a bus is eligible for placement when it's....

Sold by model year or has reach 50,000 miles. Except that a bus less 150,000 miles must remain in the service beyond 20 years until it reaches a 150,000 miles. So we want at least 150,000 miles on the buses. And a buss 15 years of age is eligible for replacement only until it reaches 300,000 miles. What we do in this, is also stress safety, we try to balance that trough mayor approach because some LEAs drive buses much longer and there fore the buses were out a lot sooner. Other LEAs drive the buses on longer trips. But he age would phase them out they would be 20 years and older and they would not have that many mileage on it. The other unique thing about this, is to encourage the LEAs to run the buses longer. We provide an incentive bonus and that is 2,000 per bus, per year that they extend the life of the bus, by maintenance and use and good practices. We reward that where you get a 2,000 dollar per bus, per year incentive going back to the LEAs. They don't have to use it for school bus maintenance they can use it for anything that they want to, in order to provide that incentive. The third aspect is that it provides a grand fathering. Because the LEAs had been anticipating this 20 year model. They had been using they buses to that term. I think it would be unfair to suddenly put this on there. So what we done in this bill, is provide a two year grand fathering to allow the LEAs to transition into this program and allow them to change the way they operate the buses. Still be held harmless for what they were anticipating. The way that they been doing it. So it provides a glide path in to this program. And then finally, probably one of the most things I'm most exited about, is the savings for safety. Out of this saving and the saving are truly significant. We are gonna create a grant program, that allows the LEAs to apply for this grant program to put stop cameras, stop arm violation cameras on the buses. We had tragically five children killed, this year, by people passing stop school buses. Representative Lambeth and representative Hanes, I don't see him here, but ran a great bill to address that is tragic, and its needless actually but. This grant program allows LEAs to put cameras on the bus to assist in the prosecution of this cases. It does not mandate it. Its a grand program, because it quiet frankly, it takes the volunteer effort of the DEA working with the school to persecute this cases and there has to be and effort there, this cameras provide additional tools. But there is much work that needs to be done, and this creates a grant program. Here is the savings trough this program. The projected saving incorporating all of that is a 172.5 to 185.1 million dollars over five years. And this budget cycle is projected to save 67.5 to 70.8 million dollars in savings. That's in this budget cycle. It would be more but we got that grandfathering coming in. fiscal years 2015 to 17 we actually pick up a lot more. And so the saving would even go up, if the incentives kick in, that's not even including the incentives. So that I think is a substantial savings. I did talk with several people after we did this. Mrs. Joice we had a great conversation, she said that, she talked with the transportation director, who serves at legislation. He thinks that the current proposal is fair and reasonable. He especially likes the 30 buss safety margin. This bill what it does, is provide 30 buses allocated for each year in case there is something bad happens. The state has available, the ability, with this 30 buses to handle those anomalies that occur the lemons the unsuspected crash or bus or something like that

improvise and with flexibility. So this is a well reasoned, of course I'm biased in that, but approach to a very economical way to save taxpayer money and maintain safety and security for our schools. [CHANGE SPEAKERS] Thank you Representative Arp. I think there are a few committee questions. Representative Horn. [CHANGE SPEAKERS] Thank you Mr. Chairman. Representative Arp, please two questions. One is why do we need a law? Why can't we do this by directive? Why can't it be done the way it's been done, just change the directive? [CHANGE SPEAKERS] Well, that's the way we speak is through laws, right? [CHANGE SPEAKERS] I understand, but... [CHANGE SPEAKERS] Follow up? [CHANGE SPEAKERS] I understand. Yes, that's the way we speak. All I'm asking is if DPI thinks this is a great idea, they could implement this without another law on the books. Yes or no? [CHANGE SPEAKERS] I guess they could, yeah. I don't know. [CHANGE SPEAKERS] There seems to be some disagreement. [CHANGE SPEAKERS] If you will just hold that thought Representative. [CHANGE SPEAKERS] I have a second question. [CHANGE SPEAKERS] If you'll just hang on to that for just a minute, because we have staff and I'd like them to respond to the question. [CHANGE SPEAKERS] Thank you Mr. Chairman. Brian Maddison with Fiscal Research. The current standards for school bus replacement are set out by the state board of education in the absence of a law to codify such standards. However, their allotment of school buses across the state is contingent on the appropriations you make. So if you were to alter the appropriations any way, you probably would want, if you were to be considering this bill, some mechanism to articulate to the state board some of your thinking and you how might be modifying it from the existing guidelines they've set out. [CHANGE SPEAKERS] That's a better answer. [CHANGE SPEAKERS] Yes sir. Follow up. I have a second question. [CHANGE SPEAKERS] So [CHANGE SPEAKERS] Second question. On page two, C3 at the top, line six. You talk of, there's where the two thousand dollar incentive payment is. [CHANGE SPEAKERS] Yes [CHANGE SPEAKERS] Now is that for all the buses they have in their fleet? Brand new ones? They start getting two thousand. How does that, where's that start? [CHANGE SPEAKERS] What it does is every year that they go past the thresholds I mentioned earlier, that they track past the threshold, the minimum thresholds that we talked about, they are eligible for that incentive bonus. They're not required to do that. They can turn it in. And as you well know, the counties buy the original buses, and then as they wear out, the state replaces those. So as the LEAs go past the minimum threshold, this incentive bonus kicks in for those eligible buses. [CHANGE SPEAKERS] The only follow up is, is that actually what it said in that sentence there? In that C3 paragraph? I understand that that's what you mean. I'm just not convinced that when I read that, that that's what it actually says. [CHANGE SPEAKERS] There can be an offline conversation with staff to clarify that. Representative Avila. [CHANGE SPEAKERS] Thank you Mr. Chairman. I'm not finding it. You keep referring to the grandfather clause. How exactly does that work? [CHANGE SPEAKERS] Under section two. Again, I'm not a lawyer. I'm an engineer. But I think that's how they wrote that grandfather clause. Under section two. Is that right, Mr. Maddison? [CHANGE SPEAKERS] Staff is shaking their head in the affirmative. Representative McNeill. [CHANGE SPEAKERS] Yes sir. Thank you. I have a question and a comment also. I'll kind of roll it all into one. I like your bill Representative Arp. I think it does a good job. You're well on the way. Something that you mentioned to me brought up a question. As far as school bus crashes, do you know if we insure our school buses, or are we self-insured, or how that goes? [CHANGE SPEAKERS] I'm going to try. I think each of the LEAs have their own policy. I think in terms of court they go something back to the state thing. We've got Mr. Graham from DPI. [CHANGE SPEAKERS] Mr. Graham, if you would identify yourself for the record. [CHANGE SPEAKERS] Yes. Derrick Graham, Section Chief for Transportation with The Department of Public Instruction. The tort claims covers the negligence of the driver and the mechanic if we do damage to another vehicle or person while operating our vehicle. As far as insurance on our buses themselves we're self insured. If we damage our own bus, for lack of a better term, we just

?? and pay for the damage it self with the from our current appropriations. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Follow up representative McNeill. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. I understand we have liability on it. This is just a comment while you were studding it. I would like to know. How mush this. And this is in the old part of the language. I know you haven't look into it yet. How much is costing us with this two percent bio diesel that's written into this bill. I know bio diesel is hard to get and some times. Is a lot more expensive than regular diesel. I just personalty like for you to consider that. How much extra that is costing the state. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. That's not in my bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Representative Brandon [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Thank you Mr. chair. I don't know how I feel about the bill. So I asked Tomas build buses who is in my district. What they thing about the bill. I just wanted you to know, I hope that you reach out to them cos they are one of our largest employers. They only just build buses, but a lot of people around the area depend on those jobs. But one of his concerns, and I just wanna communicate to you, is that he said that, Toma build spoke with personal, that they are very concern with the removal of age limitations. They have research this, that do to low mileage some buses would take 37 years to reach 300,000 miles. The resort ?? that ?? only ?? fleet, which is the oldest in the nation. Removal of the age limit would be detrimental to the state in terms of new technology. And would likely result in increase maintenance for the district, as they would operate vehicles longer. The older the bus the more they spend on the maintenance. We feel that the current requirements work well for the state but we are will to work with the representative. I just wanted to let you know, that is what they said, in the hope that you reach out to them. Cos they are one of our largest employers. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Representative Brandon what we did is exactly what you are talking about. Haven't spoken to them directly. but to address that very situation, that's why we did the tier situation. And so we still have an age limit of 20 years. Its call a by-level matrix in here. That you got an age requirement as well a mileage requirement. In order to do that. To prevent buses from going 37 years. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Ether or. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Yes. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Representative Brody. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Tank you mister chairman. Representative Arp. I make the assumption that when we don't want the buses we sell them. One of the things I wanna ask you, because being in business, a concern about business is that when they buy vehicle is a concern that they can't just get anymore for them. And they calculate where that points is, were we can get so much for them and if we go beyond that it falls off drastically. Could one of the consideration for DPI program now, or criteria now is just that. That this buses when they reach this point, we can get the most value for them on the marker and then beyond that it falls off. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Representative Brody. I appreciate the comment. I guess what I would say is there is an aspect to that. But I would ask you to reconsider it differently. Our primary purpose is not in the sale and resale of buses, is in the transport of students. And is all ways cheaper if you can make that car run a little bit longer and achieve that primary purpose. That question would have to be studied and aspect of what this is. But we know what the savings are by making our buses run a little bit longer. Which is really the primary purpose of operating not the resale value of it. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Representative Pittman. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Thank you Mr. chairman. I have, if I could, a couple of questions, and one comment. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. We got a long list. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. I try to do it quickly. And Stam made it ask for some of this. I was wondering. On page two, line tree, the mention of the replacement of up 30 buses each year, raises questions in my mind of how many buses do we currently have state wide and what is the minimum necessary to maintain adequate fleet state wide. He might know that. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. You want Stam to respond to that. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. I can tell you that we didn't appropriate any money for buses last year, because of the budget cycle. But if we can get mister Graham [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Gentleman will identify him self for the record.

…here at Greymouth EPI. We operate about 14,000 buses every day on school bus routes across the state. The 30 buses would be for…and we have current practices for doing this occasionally. Those of you in the mountain counties know about the rust situation there and we have buses that have to go out of service earlier because they’re no longer structurally sound. An occasional crash, the engine blows up. Those kinds of things that put a bus out of service and are no longer safe for students. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you. Follow-up. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Follow-up [SPEAKER CHANGES] I was wondering on page two, lines nine and ten. It says for additional maintenance or other school purpose. I’m wondering why we could not require say at least 50% of that had to be kept for maintenance and moved 50% for other things instead of the whole $2,000 being open. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Representative Pittman. The idea is to create an incentive for them to run and operate the buses over and above their natural efficiencies that they get. Right now there’s no preparation made to each LEA for the maintenance, so the states already taken out the maintenance involved with that. What this does is allow them to use that for maintenance or maintenance-type projects but it really opens it up for them to incentivize it because they don’t have a dollar in the game because the appropriations come from the state and the replacement comes from the state. So what we’re trying to do is bring them as partners in and say look, help us get this longer in a safe and creative way to run these buses longer and if you want to you can share in the savings that we produce because each year we run the buses longer defers us replacing a $90,000 bus. So what we want to do is return an incentive back to them out of the savings and say thank you for helping us be frugal. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Bumgardner. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chairman. I have a question for Representative Arp. Did you say that your bill’s going to have this section here on page one, line 15-21 taken out? [SPEAKER CHANGES] I’m sorry give me the reference again. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Page one, line 15-21. Did you say that was coming out of your bill? [SPEAKER CHANGES] No, I’m just simply saying my bill doesn’t address that. That’s in current law. I think there was a question about some biofuels. I don’t know if that’s a federal requirement. That’s current law. Mine only talks about the replacement of the buses, not the operating of them. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To clarify, that’s not part of his bill, it’s just there for statutory instruction. It’s existing language here, as in currently in the statute. [SPEAKER CHANGES] That may be something you want to do outside of here. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Elmore. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chairman. My question is with this incentive component of this also. How did you come up with the $2000 amount? What was your thought process on that? [SPEAKER CHANGES] What I wanted to do was have a substantial enough… We don’t want to over incentivize it because safety is the main concern but we do want to reward the frugality and the buy in and the creativity that’s available In the LEAs. The $2000 thought was a striking and good balance between the savings per year that we get on the bus versus some incentive that we can share back to the LEAs. We opened it up so they could apply it to special creative educational programs and not restricted to just transportation. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Follow-up Mr. Chairman. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Follow-up [SPEAKER CHANGES] Do you have any estimates on the amount of money or any projections of the amount of money that the county’s maybe getting back with this incentive program? Like for example, maybe an urban system like Charlotte-Meck and a rural system so we can have some number about what you are predicting that the systems will be bringing back with your incentive program? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Representative Elmore. We don’t have that data. That was part of the challenge of trying to create the fiscal note. The numbers that I gave you do not include any incentives coming back so the…

Representative: meetings that I have told you about are without any incentives. If they run those buses longer, those incentives increase, and we have got a range where we would say maybe 10% of those would take advantage of that. We just don’t know. We may find that the incentive bonus is too low, but we can adjust that, or maybe it is too high, but I don’t think they will say that. Speaker: Representative Hurley? Representative: Thank you Mr. Chair. A couple of comments. I talked with one of my school districts yesterday just to see how they felt and they said that the parts were expensive and hard to find sometimes. He said that every time they got a new bus, the safety features were approved. Speaker: Representative Floyd? Representative: Mr. Chair, and the staff may correct me, when the first 250,000 miles were set, that was base upon the gasoline engines. Today, it is set based on diesel engines, which, as Representative [xx] has said, they run longer. If you talk to a truck driver, he will tell you that 250,000, its engine is not even broken in - most come off the road with 500,000 miles to rebuild the engine. So this is a tremendous savings. When it is asked in relation to the safety features and the maintenance of the bus, the department has the manual that is distinct right here that insist in the overall maintenance of the bus. So the question is that over some part of time, like Hertz rental, would I rather buy a used car from Hertz rental or from Elma Floyd? I would buy one from Hertz Rentals because they have a constant maintenance on their vehicle. So this is a good bill and saves the state and county money, by them not putting up a lot of upfront money in replacing the buses. As an example, Wade County student population, as you know, is constantly growing. This will save them some dollars and cents. So, this is a good bill. What it is actually doing is setting forth a policy that had not been in place, again, the 250,000 miles was sort of mentioned by DPI, but not fixed in statutes. That is what this bill is trying to do and at the same time, provide safe transportation for our students and save state money that can be used elsewhere than in the DPI system. Speaker We have to leave here at 10 til, so we maybe only have 2 or 3 more minutes. We have got three people on the list and will try to get to you. Representative Adams? Representative: Thank you Mr. Chair. I will try to be brief. Just a couple of questions on the incentive. First of all, do you have a cap on how many buses you will get the incentive for? Representative: In the bill it says that you cannot run a bus past 23 years, and that is in the effort to address Representative Brandon and provide some cap on the safety and the length we run these buses. So, it depends upon if a bus is eligible for replacement at 15 years, then they could run it to 23 years, well that, in effect, is a de facto cap, not a cap per se, just in the sense of the model year. Representative: Follow up? Well is there a cap on how many buses you can get $2000 and an incentive for? Representative: No because every year they run that, saves us money, and we are paying the incentive out of that savings. Speaker: Representative Tourbit? Representative: Thank you Mr. Chair. A question to the bill’s sponsor. Representative, good morning, thank you for bringing this bill forward. Would it be possible to ask you to, before we move into the transportation process, that you can get a probability reading of how close you feel those numbers can be obtained if those be implemented? Representative: Are you talking about the incentive, or…? Representative: Overall savings you mentioned to… Representative: I have a fiscal note, yes. Speaker: Representative Baskerill? Representative: Thank you Mr. Chair. I just wanted to thank Representative Arp

Prior experience in education to the table here. I think this is a creative way to try to address a problem and save some money. I think we ought to give a shot and lest try it so I think this a good idea. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Representative Wit. Alright last question. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Just a couple of thing to ponder representative Arp has done an outstanding job with a lot of adept study on this. There is probably a couple of more questions to ponder the two thousand dollars item just to put that in perspective. On a set on a bus that is basically set of tires if you are lucky. That is not a whole lot of money just so you know when it comes to engine and wear and tear the engine is, depend on the type of engine, gonna outlast the clutch fans the chassis and just the wear and tear in many, many other components of a complex machine. And here is the numbers I have in my home county and its a mountain county a whole lot of winding roads with undulation, elevation rises and so on. Out fleet and our super indented it was out former buss director. And he is just as tight a banjo string when it comes to conservative principles, that is why he is there. And we can only squeak about 20 years out of our buses and they only average 200,000 miles. So on the matrix as it continues to be vetted, just keep those mountain counties in mind because they do have a whole lot more wear and tear and do not accumulate the miles years fast. But thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Representative Arp thank you for bring this before us. We are past our time and the comity is adjourned