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House | May 28, 2013 | Committee Room | Education

Full MP3 Audio File

Before we start the meeting today or?? the introductions. We have several people who did not get to speak time last and I need to know if Natasha Pierson is here and if Radney Elise is here and Tim Bornsback and ?? James mask, Amelie, Anny ramble, Paster Carson. If there is anyone to speak forward the bill. Would you come and give your name. Alright I will cal this meeting to order and we have 3 pages ?? is that right ?? county sponsored by Stevens to ?? that white county sponsored by Jackson ?? Edison and sponsored by Maltif. Thank you for coming. It will be a active committee today and learn a lot. Thank you very much. [SPEAKER CHANGES]Mam in chair [SPEAKER CHANGES] yes [SPEAKER CHANGES]right in front of me[SPEAKER CHANGES] yes representative Michael[SPEAKER CHANGES] There is a document?? [SPEAKER CHANGES] there it does not have name on them[SPEAKER CHANGES]There is no name on them. [SPEAKER CHANGES] They are the bill sponsor representative Brian. Pass that out is he here. He may not have known that he should have his name on it. Just to finish the hearing we were doing, Last week I ask Natasha Pierson and Radney Elise after here. If u get up and like to speak. if we have a minute or so. after here. We have a new PCS whoever has the motion to have it before. So all those in favor, all against the motion passed.[SPEAKER CHANGES]Good morning my name is Natasha Pierson. I am the elementary principle of upper room christian Academy. I speak about on our collective challenge in-charge, opportunity scholarship Act. These three acts demands us of to provide a quality education for all children. Since 1998 URC has provided strong foundation of principles and a quality education for students from pre-school and beyond . It is our desire to provide learning opportunities to students regarding of their income or zip code to receive a quality education. Students have come to us from all situations and all walks of life. Some with spiritual, emotional, academic and or physical needs. We have witness within a few weeks to few months and throughout several years with a transformation among

BC kids some half, CYCA meanwhile Graham, whatever its said becoming fully free arts district spelling bee winner is a published author M Collins nearest in the community thought CSF, CICA has specialized lands after imparting up any ICS NLG couples with NJKTC staff thirds have not made up of a device that TCSAPC 2 D sell a typical Eli CAC sales growth of one E. Armour and for example an average and we're not dealing with your CCS S. Cordero the Sandinista 75% or fly here less Eleanor it SS 15 NC part that CTS or that are now the three E NMS. You only NICAS Mansour banks unaccountability tools west and its participants in the detail in identification program open, finance Korea, or nine in many think the set top when CSX we are all selected opal to dump for its SMS police are because we were not for profit before the padres MB academic Dean Kamen, (SPEAKER CHANGES) Siemens AG stays and does that to supply the opportunity scholarship, 9:00 AM ocean after El Leon ENS a CK 9 and the performance M Ron EL as they could share of IBM senior and the freemen with arts teacher from the west side of Forsyth county school system or Ashton Michael we're working exclusively was the most qualified for free and reduced much or the 22 years than I were completely programs before and after school programs a charter school from S16 years the public school system to watch your with Cuba to date is not based on research and out of a personal experience and tamales experiences are worded parents and Guardians of at least the resource into public schools the best that they have with all that they have a witness this trouble to form field trips from a school supplies could form a table and people for their heads and are shooting for most of them there are no additional forms available in the fossil lawsuit the cost of tuition for private schools given the current state of our economy, argue that very few will benefit from this legislation at what cost of north Carolina’s public school system that this legislation to pass up an even worse to be getting all the trouble dismantling of public education in North Carolina and the city is built artistic freedom and smart students in our state next year will be open to all students with apartment being as commercial free reduce worse population is the most of all students and this be honest about it ultimately bad as the state to provide tax breaks for Bolshevik already a four a choice proponents argue this bill will provide abortion be the most promising to Vargas last week the choice and watch closely with the product to steal a mission to the data presented the suggested public schools are failing minority students instead of using that data to attack public schools are we using it to determine how we just the challenges for public schools and at the stewards yellow symbol before you education stickler for mortgages to parties is debating the merits of one school system will be other we should be addressed much questions and concerns and which we discussed and ideas practices and policies have proven effective about this legislative session in North Carolina house of representatives has exhibited with his two were connected the economics of the regardless of party affiliation to alter the north to stakeholders and interested parties have all like pasta to a polls this deal maker and two mistrials M TM I's five ADM (SPEAKER CHANGES) Pastor Carson did morning and scanners of the committee and carol van den berg with professional educators and North Carolina DNC device that is president of PNC ECT charity care to the full bar can you can tell from the county last week about the big a senate committee that did not get the opportunity and is unable to genesis Morningside offer the thing is to have 5¢ Ali Sami could ADM because they seem to provide money to CC someone that name of this tells a peeling the content has a slight concerned with MSN and that the cost of implementation of the scholarships would be nearly $100,000,000 of taxpayer money to sponsor the far better spent on strengthening are types of public schools by providing additional wreck ??........

Professional development for educators who are already serving our children and doing a quality job everyday.As tax payers we have already invested in north Carolina constitutionally mandated public school systems and we are just getting to appoint where we have some methods of countability and place .This bill unfortunately moves in the opposite direction and provides few provision for private schools countability to the tax payers and the students they serve it also appears that the money can be used not only for in state private schools but also for out of state private schools home schools and even online and virtual schools none of these are countable for herring

?? have said that their schools can offer smaller classes and more attention to children. Why are we not supporting these same strategies for public schools, instead of lifting the class size limit and cutting teacher assistance? It would also make sense to develop policies that discourage the creation of of high-poverty schools in the first place. North Carolina is 48th in the nation for ?? funding, and 46th for teacher pay. Instead of diverting funds we should make a serious investment in our public schools and give students what they need in our schools that are constitutionally obligated to provide all students with a sound and basic education. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Madame chair? [SPEAKER CHANGES] I have one more thing, I have a Dot Kearns? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Madame chair? Did the speaker identify who she represents? [SPEAKER CHANGES] She did not, she's a private citizen. Is that correct? Amy? ?? Private citizen? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Okay. And I understand Dot Kearns is here. But our next is Joe Hass with North Carolina Christian School Association. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Madame chair, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to speak in favor of this bill. And to set the record straight, the record shows that when parents are given a chose about the education of their children, their children who achieve better in the current model are state unfortunately discriminates against children who are at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder. And they are disenfranchised from having the opportunity to have a better educational choice only because of the amount of money in their parent's bank account. I think it's interesting that historically one of the largest professional groups who enrolls children in non-public education are teachers and principals in the public schools. I think our poor children in our state ought to be given that same opportunity. If we're gonna be consistent, we need to oppose all the grants that are out there. The Smart Start, the Head Start, the Pell Grants, the GI Bill Grants, the Food Stamp grants. We don't want to do that. But for some reason, when it comes to providing choice to our children, there's opposition. You know, the opponents say the public schools are not accountable, these non-public schools are not accountable. But they are. They're more accountable. They're accountable to their parents, they're accountable because they have to take nationally standardized individual achievement tests. It's simply not true that passing this bill is going to take money from public education. This bill will save tax payers 2500 dollars per student. It'll save tax payers by not having the expenses of paying for buildings and buses and books and additonal teachers. I believe now is the time to quit discriminating in our state against children because their parents are not rich. In a recent editorial in the newspaper it said that public schools are the best thing we do. I disagree, respectfully. I believe children are the best thing that we do. This is not an anti-public school bill. A pro-children, pro-family, and a pro-North Carolina bill. I ask you. Remember the children and vote in favor of this bill. Thank you Madame chair. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you. I apologize to Dot Kearns, who's next. I didn't turn my paper over. Dot is with the public school first. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you very much Madame chair, and thank you all for allowing us to be here this morning. I am a former social worker, I have worked with many many handicapped and poor children. I'm also a former county comissioner and school board member in Gilford county for many years. Most of all I'm a parent of 3 and a grandmother of 7. I have been in public schools across the state for many years. I've asked myself repeatedly in the last days, what is HB-944 really about? The name suggests it's about opportunity, opportunity for whom? A few children selected each year on a first-come first-serve or other basis. A few children given a special ?? at the expense of the many just like them. That didn't get selected and who will still be in the public system, made the poorer by the chance given a few. Shouldn't the opportunities be available to all our children to itself? Yes. And I bellieve they are. It's popular now to say that anything not perfect is broken. Public schools are not broken. I've seen the light in the eyes of the hundreds of children when they learn "I can read, I can read fast now. I can graduate, I never thought I would be able to." I have seen this happen as teachers and social workers work consistently and constantly with students to see that they have better healthcare, and better

communities. I see every day a rising graduation rates and a lower dropout rate. HB 944 isn't about a broken public system, and it isn't about a lack of choice. I've seen the progress of students in dozens and dozens of magnet schools. Elementary magnet schools. Middle schools. College high schools on college campuses. Early college schools. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Miss Kearns, if you will just finish up. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Alright. So if HB 944 isn't about a lack of choice, what is it really about? It is about using our public tax dollars. The poet said a rose is a rose is a rose. So it is with vouchers. A voucher is still the name of the use of public tax dollars to provide a select situation, profit, parochial, or whatever, to a few. John Adams, out founding father said, [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you. You're gonna have- it wouldn't be fair if I didn't stop you at the same time. Thank you so much for coming in, [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, I beg you to oppose this bill in the interest of all. [SPEAKER CHANGES] and I appreciate so much the people who came back again to speak and I apologize that we dedicated one hour to public of the 2 hour meeting that 944 would have heard. So that will give us an hour, I plan on voting on this at 11, that will give it a full 2 hours, and we do have a PCS, so I believe our sponsors can come and tell you the change- [SPEAKER CHANGES] Madam Chair. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I'm sorry, yes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] You called my name at the beginning, Amy Lee. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Oh, I'm terribly sorry. I'm terribly sorry. Your name? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Amy Lee? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Oh, okay, I'm sorry. ?? Let's give her her 2 minutes, too if our- [SPEAKER CHANGES] Madam Chair? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes? [SPEAKER CHANGES] I was just ask you about arithmetic, you said we'd have a full 2 hours, and then we voted at 11? [SPEAKER CHANGES] We had- Oh, I'm sorry. A half an hour of discussion, I said that wrong, an hour of having the public heard, and a half an hour of debate. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Just a quick follow up, I know you have a speaker, but only a half hour for the committee? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Well we've already heard the bill, we heard it last week and they took a half an hour that time, so that we have an hour. You understand what I'm saying? Okay, if you'll go ahead, 2 minutes please. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] For the record, the public would like to know who paid for the out of state speakers who spoke at last week's meeting? Speakers such as Jeannie Allen with the Center for Education Reform, a member of ??, and Doug Tuthill with Step Up for Students, also an ALEC member. Step up for students is also on the ALEC education task force which helped draft this and other voucher legislation, that they directly benefit from by receiving almost $7 million in fees this year from managing the Florida voucher program. No wonder Daryl Allison is pushing so hard for this legislation and donated a lot of money to many of your campaigns, because parents for educational freedom could make a lot of money from managing a voucher program here in North Carolina. If the public schools are not serving our children, then it is you who has failed them. Parents who support vouchers want small class sizes, access to pre-K, a teacher assistant in every classroom to help struggling students, resources for high achieving students to having enrichment programs, and alternatives to student suspensions. We had these in the public schools until you cut funding. House bill 944 comes directly from ALEC model legislation and ALEC privatizers seem to be trying to buy your votes with hefty campaign contributions. The ALEC corporate lobbyists are foaming at the mouth to make money off the backs of our children and taxpayers. There's no accountability taxpayers and there's no evidence that vouchers increase student achievement. However there does appear to be fraud at least in Milwaukee. According to Milwaukee's member Larry Miller, they have private schools that over enroll voucher students until after the official date to calculate enrollment. Then those private schools kick students out but keep the voucher money. You are in a position to help our children, not throw them under the corporate bus. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, and I apologize again for missing your name, Miss Lee. Again, thank you everyone for wanting to have an input in this, and if our bill sponsors will come forward and explain your changes in the PCS? And because it's 5 more minutes, we'll not vote til 11:05.

Madam Chairwoman, You do have a PCA before you, I think from the one that we looked at last week, there is just one additional change which might be difficult to read now, but it’s requiring the annual administration of national standardized tests in grades 3 or higher. Right now the non public schools, I think they are required to take tests in grades 3, 6 8 11 may be. This requires annual testing for any students receiving scholarship and that’s the only change to PCA. [Speaker Changes] Thank you so much and now we are open for questions. Representative Adam. [Speaker Changes] Thank you Madam Chairwoman. I have a question and I want to make a comment on the bill too. What’s the actual amount that you are requesting? Initially I think saw $90 million is there a change in the PCA? [Speaker Changes] Well it’s not a change from the last week’s PCA. But from the original bill that was filed yes there is a change. It’s $ 10 million for this coming fiscal year and $40 million for the following fiscal year. [Speaker Changes] Following [??] [Speaker Changes] Yes [Speaker Changes] So how does that impact the number of children that you are proposing to serve, if you initially had 90 and now you have 50. [Speaker Changes] Well in the initial year and part of this was a timing issue given how late in the year we are . So in the initial year about 2000 students could exercise their scholarship and the following year another additional well about 9000 total. Assuming that the 2000 stay in the program about an additional 7000 students could join the program [Speaker Changes] Madam if you could recognize at some point to comment on the bill. [Speaker Changes] Rep Glazier [Speaker Changes] Madam Chair, you are just taking questions, mine are comments [Speaker Changes] Ok Comments [Speaker Changes] Thank you Comments on the bill and several points. First there has been argument that’s been made about this bill that if you have a voucher at the eligible income level set that this is going to open wide opportunities for those who are poor to access private choices. So decided to test that theory out with actually some data. And we contacted over the past week 24 private schools in the state and 8 counties and vast majority of them are religious based. Because those tend to have slightly lower tuition than some of the richer private schools. And if you combines those, this voucher would mean that someone who gets the voucher going to an elementary school would still have to come up on an average $5,869 for that year middle school $7150 per year and high school $8457. So to say that this is going to create access for the poor in any of the school as an economic matter is simply not correct at least in this state and this is based on schools in 8 counties that occupied the share of the specific data. Second, this idea that even if they got a voucher and then got assistance form the school and most of these schools have assistance. But if you look at their assistance in scholarship form, they are to say least substantial. And a lot of people would not be filling out those forms. And if you looked at and configured out why, but even if they were, the difference is the private schools get to choose. They get to turn away VSL kids. They get to turn away the economic kid who has a discipline problem. They get to turn away the turn away the health care concerns that they cannot meet. So the only poor kids that are going to get access under this at all are the parents are the ones whose parents are substantially involved and who have a good academic record who are not at risk, particular not at risk during the first year of the program. And what it’s going to leave the public school with then are even a higher percentage of at risk ESL kids exceptional kids, kids with discipline problems and jake up the cost of education in those class rooms. This bill in my view has all the problems vouchers have. It will weaken public education. It will undermine opportunity for the vast majority. It is a waste of tax payers’ dollars at a time when we have extremely financial limitations. Most importantly it promotes a divided North Carolina. I may conclude my comments with what I always believe and that is the public education is the one institution in this country that bonds our people together as one nation under one flag with a common set of values and if we divide that in to hundreds and hundreds of private schools, we are doing incredible damage to the fabric of public education.

Asia and the society and for all those economic and educational social and moral: political reasons this bill should be defeated by a bank to represent a glacier and just remember we only have 30 minutes I have 123-4567 more people I just wonder , too, but the biggest , but I do appreciate the fact that you yourself supported the tax credit for special needs which is actually less money than the storm and calm and then so I really confused only because what I would tell us that the people in my community and they might not have an IP and it might not have the funding for the first is that there are deferring the special and it is the same exact situation and there have been several people here who have been serving this population of four men, (SPEAKER CHANGES) that the export method of taking accommodation we have a we have a program in Charlotte that at the same thing with less money than they have been coming we don't really need to start with what can people to working people to the people in my community we can do anything we would have led to the fact that said you , Allison fourth amendment (SPEAKER CHANGES) said fourth-and won the men's 10:00 AM to dark about it and take into account and four NE avocation for the 9/2 those attacking algebra students receive a scholarship grants now we're in the NYC I wear helmets goes have two, make available to SNMP charges by the schools so I won two-minute that will fry them in annual basis is nine, expos must make available to those are the ones that are reshaping things that the charge of the best coaches like a plan that MSDN downtown , sometimes for 9312 data lines 31 and -31 and 932 to have a role in knots landing at the end of that PS that van, I'd like to support the amendment because of the one 18th of this coalition bombing and that's what we're talking about fully disclosing of the dead man that once supported the same as listed on NMS that the system isn't that the 6.115 and six already book was providing that for the authority that would become a public record , the want ads learn that same page 15 and six stamps and that someone has to rely on an event from mentioning this represented PL, and they get into the party is not making it public, frank MD 80 and you can send replies to be a five DN a MI T's tell me that will receive reports by the FA that the application of five and a lot of that situation NFC's jar john Bayard com web site also a naked public knowledge ms taxpayers 90 nine staff would like to comment on that Kara M represents can describe the area near credit for that information TDS RB and individual five, to public records request information that's a ??......

and that would make it more directly accessible to the public by requiring them to provide it to the public directly upon request rather than going around through the authority. [speaker changes] Do the bill's sponsors have any remarks? [speaker changes] Conceptually, we don't have any problem with it but the language right now, as it is, is a little broader. We'd like to work with the representative on tweaking the language. [speaker changes] Is anybody else want to speak on the amendment? Representative Elmore. [speaker changes] In reference to the amendment, this morning in ?? appropriations, the senate budget is making an effort that the school systems budgets be posted online and made more publicly. This amendment seems to put this more in line with that policy decision with the public schools and I just wanted to make that comment. [speaker changes] And again, we conceptually have no issues with this amendment. I just think it's a little ambiguous of how that will be administered, how that data will be applied, so I would just like to work with the bill's sponsor, the amendments sponsor, to be able to tweak the language to ensure that we have good reference of language. [speaker changes] Representative Collins [speaker changes] I was just gonna say the same thing. Why do you meet the requirement here? Do you have to put it in a local newspaper? Can you put it on your website? What's considered public notice? [speaker changes] Representative Iler. [speaker changes] That was my same concern. Thank you. [speaker changes] Well, the amendment is properly before us. All those in favor of Representative Gill's amendment will say yes. All those opposed no. The amendment fails. Representative Ross. [speaker changes] Thank you, Madame Chair. I don't know whether this is a question for the bill's sponsors or for staff, but I just want to talk about what schools this would apply to because we've heard from private schools and we've heard from some christian schools, but I assume that there can be no discrimination and that this will also apply to muslim schools. Is that correct? I'm asking this question because I had a muslim school in my district that's interested in vouchers, so I want to make sure that it would apply to them as well. [speaker changes] Please let them know that they are just as eligible as anybody else. [speaker changes] Thank you and Madame Chair, may I just ask another question? [speaker changes] Certainly. [speaker changes] I understand that this bill is going to appropriations and that there have been some claims about it saving the taxpayers money in the end. When the appropriations committee looks at it, cause I serve on finance so I won't have that opportunity, I think it would be important for us to know how many children would actually have to leave the public schools to have those savings. Because, if you just have one student leave a classroom, you still have to have the teacher there. If you still won't have to turn the heat down because one student leaves and so I think that there's a big difference between a fixed cost and an incremental cost and several of the speakers have talked about how this is going to save so much money but I think it's really really important to look at it in terms of how many kids would leave each school and if it's really one or two, excuse me, if it's only one or two, I don't see where that cost is gonna come in and I think to have an appropriate fiscal note, we need to look at that and so I just put that request in since it's going to appropriations . [speaker changes] Would the bill's sponsor like to? [speaker changes] Sure. Sure. Representative Ross, I appreciate the comment. That's obviously something that everybody is concerned about, the sort of collective impact, but I would say that they've done studies in all of the places where they have similar programs and they have saved money and there are a lot of variables to consider when doing that. I would say in urban areas, which is where they tend to be exercised more often, these type scholarships when you have, especially in counties like Wake and Mecklenburg which tend to have a high level of growth, it's actually just, when you lessen - if you take 500 students out for a scholarship and the growth was gonna be 5,000, you just have 4500 less students which there's variables like school building and things like that. All of that to say, we do have an initial fiscal note. We, as the bills sponsors, still have been working on things, but that initial fiscal note does show cost savings but that will be before appropriations. I'll be glad to get you a copy of it. [speaker changes] Representative Michaux [speaker changes] Just a comment, Madame Chair. [speaker changes] Certainly. [speaker changes] My concern --

I noticed that the information given us is from local school systems like Milwaukee, Miami, Cleveland. I haven't heard any data given us from any statewide systems where this has been in affect, that's number one. Number two is what happens to those kids who are in impoverished communities who do not have access to this education that you are talking about that they are supposed to have access to. I'm talking about counties like Warren County and other counties where you don't have the private schools that this would apply to. How do we provide for the education for those kids if you're gonna be taking money away from the public schools on that. Then the third thing is that we know the private schools cherry pick. So, I don't care which color you are or what has happened in your life, that private school is gonna cherry pick their students. I happen to see an add in a newspaper this weekend congratulating the graduates of a particular private school and they had pictures of all the graduates in there. Out of the 90 some odd graduates there were only three that could be identified as being of a minority hue. The last thing is why would you not put a diversity clause into this legislation that would guarantee that you would somehow approximate the number of students in public education. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Whitmire. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Madam Chair. I would like to speak on the bill and then ask a question at the end. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Certainly. [SPEAKER CHANGES] In my district which includes three counties, people have lots of great choices and let me emphasis the system that serves over 87% of the kids in this state is traditional public education. Transylvania County, both high schools, all high schools over a 90% academic ?? scores just last year. The list of accolades go on and on with graduation rates and so on. Henderson County ninth overall in the ACT, but yet 92nd least in 80 in funding. Transylvania County is not far behind that that. Polk County, three out of four of the elementary schools were not just honor schools of excellence, but national blue ribbon schools of excellence. In the last five years their overall graduation rate has been north of 89%. That's three counties, three rural counties, that when you continually take away, take away, take away, folks no matter what their political dominion is their kids end up taking it in the shorts. An an example, we cut our athletic budget two years ago when I was a school board chairman. Oh by the way we're the most fiscally effective school system in the state is the NVIDPI. We had to cut it 50%. My little girl was wearing a basketball uniform that was 11 years old. Now that may sound like a sob story, but my point is folks there are some great choices. I can't necessarily help if some areas have some major issues, but I have to speak up for my district in my area where this bill robs Peter to pay Paul. In the end I have great issues with the transparency of accountability. In terms, the limitations of the reportability of testing. The criminal background checks are probably OK, but then again what's good for one classification is good for the other. Only one at the highest level, I don't think that makes sense. In the end the money just doesn't add up. I look at what we have in terms of private school opportunities in this area where I live. We've got a couple of private schools that K8 is about 14,000 a year, nine through graduation is 19,000. When I look a those that are affordable that this 4200 would work for, their capacity is extremely limited with not much chances of increasing. I spoke with one individual who runs a great school and again it's a great choice. It's a Christian school. Their maximum increase that they could expect is five students. I only have two of those in one county, one in another. I may have missed one or two, but the capacity that would help is very limited. So when it's all said and done Madam Chair my question is this, as a freshman there are a lot of things during budget that probably could go right passed us. Is this bill going to be a stand alone that goes on to appropriations, then on to an individual house vote or is it possibly gonna get embedded in the budget with no further hearing? Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Either one of those are possible.

The options are the result we didn’t have that just i want to know this is want to one of the [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you [SPEAKER CHANGES] ?? next is representative luke. He has an amena. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes mam. Its an question for me. I think its being cost out now. In a course of time i could search talking about it. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Let me knew [SPEAKER CHANGES] Are you bearing about the moment the question is the thousand of the budget that comes to the core [SPEAKER CHANGES] How would they on there [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thankyou mam. Mam is the house this is a very simple mam can i hope the i hope the four panel works it exactly because i think she is in overside subconscious ear on the power of the drafters. If you work on each one of the bill, the bill reference is the importance in line 9 of creating educational environments there it enable it starts learn as if this bill is place with us can happen. Infinitely i don’t hope it linet as it is ?? an power who all that teaches on that state. So ready list shows clever point that better change about the world at this additional which seems them we already have education environments in our state in an enably change the world and budgets with the bill iam putting dish no way i think thats a journals change on put change on a probable thank i didn’t similarly utilize talk about the games on page 5 to series scholarship grants where it has been indicated with reference to my walky i used possible that their losses so my question is this essential interested in being no more objective and these are gains and losses. So these is mr. Danny bounces me around is on the stamens and our proceed option. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Is there any one speaks on the memo? The responses [SPEAKER CHANGES] Fine with the memo [SPEAKER CHANGES] The i [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative luke is member before us for us infavour of ?? or as a personal the ?? and next [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mam [SPEAKER CHANGES] Like I to come here [SPEAKER CHANGES] Absolutely. I came [SPEAKER CHANGES] Excuse me [SPEAKER CHANGES] Well. We have a two nicer too i really we want to have a nice time to starts now . [SPEAKER CHANGES] We have three more speakers there [SPEAKER CHANGES] i understand. Mam you first say quick look on the point the whole issue we really came and really trouble soming makin this ?? the bill how it to be paid and how this ?? to be paid if someone saying this going for a one crorer of the year and haven’t ?? to go the core. I was seeing anything the bill will takes a bag in his tution from the professor brain turn out from the point what the bill says lets go on money for the students . these lessons are true from the website these go says you pay 100% on the tour and you leave 10% ther on the ?? and this is . but the real point the most important point i think before us is the issue of separation of fusion state if you look at this bill carefully you maynotice the line of the ?? the bill is does not require still goes credited by sacks which is the standard of these ?? crosses out these places for universe seasons who are credited there. they are not in this bill now. And one of the place you go to is the mutual sounding organisation which i cabable now. And when you drill there there are organisation you find there Christian accreditation association and in the criteria for accreditation is how well Christian teachings come across to the students .also in acrediation work is where further the school has teachers are possibly the jesus Christ. Now are you stop there discover examples also the summaries go the Christians can catholic ?? tution for those children and ?? to be and i do the course from the website for the Christian are catholic. Now what iam saying is this may u.s supreme court must had giving a compensation of the us supreme court. The fact that them is i do not to have ?? you cant support the bill i should flavourly give you?? have spend money to schools as they machine to teach one and another denomination with the in the Christian faith and actually wont say i didn’t see respect to rally mrs.?? Query. There is 10% school to teach from the current. So equal opportunity in my

...decision. My question is, I think this is wrong, I think it needs to come out of the bill. The whole, any kind of funding for Christian schools, whose website indicates that Christianity, or Islam, is part of the teaching mission, and I just wonder if Representative Brian or one of the other sponsors will defend the lack of separation between church and state. Thank you. Chair: I do want to remind you, we have a couple more people who want to speak, and we are going to vote at five after. Did you want to respond, bill sponsors? Representative: I would like to respond, madam. Sure, this is about parent selecting schools for their kids. So ultimately we're not deciding, we're not giving money to a particular school, a parent is giving money to a particular school. It's perfectly constitutional. I heard you give it to pre-school and to colleges. I assume you would not like us to stop supporting these pre-k's or these private universities that we support, through the GI bill and others. [Inaudible objection. A gentleman continues to interject out of range of the microphone.] I might disagree, and I think the majority of us here disagree. Chair: Representative Fisher. Representative Fisher: Thank you, Madam Chair. I have a few things I want to say, and I will try not to take up the whole time that we have left, but I have a lot on my mind here. Chair: You'll have to explain that to [mentions four representatives]. Representative Fisher: [laughs] I wonder if the bill sponsors have made sure that the nonpublic schools will not charge more than the amount of the vouchers, and the reason I ask that question is because in Wake County, private school tuitions alone, at St. David's, it's $39,650 a year; after vouchers it would be only $34,450 a year. Cary Academy, it's $17,750 a year; after vouchers it would be only $13,500 a year. Cardinal Gibbons, if you are not a Catholic, it's $13,380 a year; after vouchers it would be $9,180. If you are a Catholic, it's $9,475; after vouchers it's $5,275. Ravenscroft currently charges $20,335, but after vouchers you could get in for $16,135. I have to say that this is a ridiculous use of taxpayer money. I am proud that our schools were one of the only system of schools in the country that did not close during the Great Depression. We go back that far and farther. And here we are in the Great Recession getting ready to ultimately shut down public schools. Is this where we really want to go? I ask you to vote against this bill; thank you. Chair: Representative Jones. Representative Jones: Thank you, Madam Chairman, I appreciate the opportunity, and I would like to just note for the record that it seems like that so far the committee time has pretty much been monopolized by the opponents of the bill, so I hope the Chair will be gracious. I'd like to make just a few comments in support of this bill. i really think it comes down, at the end of the day, to whether you think House Bill 944 is a good bill or a bad bill is how you answer this philosophical question, and that is, whose decision should it be? Who should have the authority? Who is responsible for these children? We hear a lot of red herring debates, every time any bill comes forward that has any aspect of parental choice. And I would just suggest that just because you would support such a bill as House Bill 944 would not be, as the opponents would make it seem, that you are against public education. That to me is an incredible thought, and it basically means that if you shop for your groceries at Food Lion, that somehow you are conceding that Harris Teeter is broken, or that Harris Teeter is bad, and that is simply not the case. And once you get to Food Lion and you decide you want to purchase your gallon of milk, that just because you purchase 2% milk means that there's something wrong with whole milk or 1% milk, or chocolate milk, or fat-free milk, or all the milks out there now that aren't even milk. [laughter] So I would just suggest...

The valley's step and family got him right for any stuff this album does not mean that one is against public schools we put a lot of that retail outlet hearing the bank's lee Curtis said nine, expos said no accountability to announce the ads(SPEAKER CHANGES ) I put them out of an Islamic and that they could have a shot against their way that said you were legged to represent public schools -Gemini listen that the elected representative of telling them a chance to senate should oppose this promise close-up to dismiss those two other schools that were that the plan that the stadium with any good so that they meet the family said they may answer that if the general assembly that hardly a public discussion was it the pair that seven-Jan allergists against that parents have got given rights event of a problem with a stern message and just SNA two or three more minutes from that, and now many bad, SA I see as many as 90 umpires knows that signs that the MN, Julie C MMM mounted an S, quest to speak as well, as simply ask a question in the day ended with taking questions from the makeup comments and am now with the understanding was that opportunity status employed else important issue in the valley from that it's a file of common share lead to have a chance to test them that I agree it's very important, while another dns in MSDN if you would like for other people just a tool that a gracious in a timely to remarks that by next speaker in mind as represented by mail and recommend to underscore the Salem open up this was composing this bill by endorsed everything that represent you would mushroom nothing cute, and all mails from pension plan to let police senator Gramm's taken that share on August 1211 beer garden and the west and said he now must speak for my counter Robeson county on a headcount is making progress toward working on the front of 49 NFS 449 alternative programming and my concern on the front something like this it takes away from wall county; heard from concerns about a table and if you just wanna take away from the good things is happening in my county and counties are similar and not just the oddball that we would do something like this are in the face of five did a good things in public education is ongoing and accounts for the more I do have a question if you mail to bill sponsored by represented by Boise?? (SPEAKER CHANGES) what is the qualifications about teachers in the cell, prod school think you have a private school says fourth still use the schools are not built the same standards for public schools in terms of office of personnel five inning that are central to the best of the many that teaches what the drama school seniors are going to take the money from its local counties to be clear and use that cannot face a statement, president of the SM boat of things done some good things this legislature in the short session we've been here a we have offered up a 2 to 4 on graduation endorsements we have we passed legislation mail addresses the issues of safety in our schools on and of not my concern is we're just gonna vote talk about both sides are a mouth so to speak with Sam one to do good for public education but then we look in this bill and we look to the damage and I think on this one happened to the public education system moving out into the future is this concern to the knowledge that on common share we've would love to talk about 911 to do for children believe we've taken money away from a preschool program moving into the future just to do away with 582 billion dollar bid from death row for those children and I would talk about a propane appropriations such as this which flies in the face of what we're trying to do get a strongly believe that we as a body have an obligation the obligations to 7 to 5 ??........

As the state constitution and publicly fund to support public education 100% one we get to that point and we're not and we do not do understand our issues out there would not being on call to his call to the spas in terms of our children's needs a new honest and issues out there until we take a stance to publication of fun in support of public education we should not be moving in this direction it weakens public education and within such programs are going strong at public school system and I cannot in good faith support this bill based on wine then that (SPEAKER CHANGES) we're not doing small public education from an update of feet on the representing Collins lauded the level the balance this a conversation from us and said that in there that some private schools don't think people would solve problems and that the cherry pick and so forth law, to public schools, like five away from first lady university system very happy that we have a public education system we have a North Carolina , but also call for 12 years old, Christian schools church affiliated and David toms some students we thought had come to us, people couldn't take out the public schools because about your problems than I am very of law and with the discombobulate about someone was cited by the school's all cherry picker students often we got people in public school system did not been hobbling also have to those of you that if I owned a nine church affiliated Christian school all that was not an Amish locking out in the channel is a process like a Mac and for the larger second largest private school in ash county on leave after novel figure the full length below the most of inflated baseball bottom of the deflation says my kids like the PlayStation rock and a so called life and how the definition, in elementary or high school age of 26 to 707,000 dollars a year which means you get a $4200 scholarship to go to come up somewhere around 252800 nineties tens of thousands of inherent for the most expensive homes, schools around the summit is that this is still have a academic reputation my daughter graduated from the reply years ago when I won only gradually something like this if they Internet years, and then your religious preference over really matters 442-5555 such as the display an example of places where this could have some good work in the county a romance with so much by the school was called good reputation by the fact that senator, send e-mail XNDM sponsors MCL in the last in the mount a comeback thanking them to August Coppola, Encino 2819 NFS about think you have to pay back from my own money for some parents parents had told me that,(SPEAKER CHANGES) because their parents and then, the $200 is too much with some parents now I can imagine why we don't want background checks while we not wanted, insist on qualifications that teaches no background checks for 89 pass the administrative level I do think that we should not make the assumption that this is not applets and Sunday that the quality education cannot be obtained in public schools and an assumption that the delta has been made here in may by even bought some of the supporters of the smell sell how think that's something that people sang nothing to a five by the time when banned for life in education and it's about a wingback chiles into fee is MMM MMM causes us to have to use public tax now with supported by the school's best known ms Japan, I just believe that if we got a deal for county we had choices are in education system right now are not based on your mistake: on the other thing to 2:00 PM but we are not finding public schools public schools in shots to educate all children and ms 4840 AM the nation per pupil spending right now we talking about pulling out $50,000,000 or more work , from the public education that's what will happen this money will undiminished what we can do, four of finding a public schools and it ultimately will this now public schools in death valley on the underlying all the feedback from people would find a good now that the man that that was up of four by the state officials about one and enabled us to increase the mother said Gail excuse me, then fisher which would have provided some kind of accountability and so we not leave the got the money account: E are having to battle it out of a ??....

Full disclosure that we should have a problem with that this is a very bad bill UNFSN this opportunity and (SPEAKER CHANGES) looked at 9:00 AM a gradualist if they all have the dollars and get prompted to let the facts and make the difference that's how will not have an opportunity for me to PISMNA Knopf one about that they'll be no opportunity if you don't have a balanced and you can't access that you don't have opportunity to bad deal, Douglas FS Scott speeches put you at the last line of act up, we may just a general, 10:00 AM E mail to remember yesterday outlined this effectively in sizing, no on this is a school choice is one of the pieces of the educational puzzle (SPEAKER CHANGES) that we need to address students from that it saves us money and independently into the fiscal and during preparations are whenever but it saves money and perfection in other counties of intent on exercise on a dozen demeaning thing to year to year end 80 and score or your counties and all from a funny when dealing with respect to these tuition questions in keeping address what well find interesting is when you have for a program which were very selling some early modeled after are now only 80 visit ninths nonfiction buying, exercising mountains to be the poorest of the four exercising the average family exercising down in Florida and Michigan farm programs plan is not decimated public education that his plan from about 10,000 kids to about 60,000 kids the average family income is $24,000 a year and their gear on scholarship grants about 4108 visit about 4300 this year by the average tuition the school's exercise that is about 5600 are some from followed in(SPEAKER CHANGES) I’m and that's all that could serve a two to direction of Collins story some of Canada’s many of the school service only focused and the desire to have kids be able to exercise on these scholarships to attend their schools and so much too often C is from Paris and a campaign volunteer hours of the other things too on makeup make a difference for schools just to accept a scholarship is painful to get this seems there are nights in a number of emails and it would be glad to come in here, for all kinds of interesting claims that down to what this does is great for the students exercise I use this merits and other TV ad are from being in many of them in the unique situation there and get together and speed every public school in their jobs in each situation this is exactly what the great lakes and Ed and jack seven states; that should have less than those ES is from M's no parking and I bell brand and five Grams of Brian I Baumgartner five corny Cleveland on Collins of telephone doctrine that some of the groom Gilmore fisher deal glacier no troll for Leon no George Graham hall no records for one worn all five are two of Jones' out Jordan Lamberth Lucas led two Malone mourned Michelle and demand this mail or they'll Ross send seven Shephard shepherd Smith five on stand five Tolson of corbett's ??............

Turner Warren Whitmire religions Dobson McManus and at the end deal is jointly adamant in 21 I eat at night and hence Ronan told the CM-represented towns I commend Chairman Imai for five or report for the prize committee substitute house soon on 44 unfavorable to the original referral appropriations measure is fully Our policy that the old regulars in the area and then I will deny him a referral to a provision of the night in committee 10 minutes ago that at representative chair next to our number is 65 future licensure and where PCS for visa and Lucas of thoughts what you don't have a is not i don't have motion by roberto lucas on those repairs i also suppose now i know is for us to focus you imagine if the chair i would imagine that you need a vitamin to paris for apple that last experience risk bill pertains to two july 2 zero would not hand any changes into july shows a poor number of years now and if the state board of education is charged with the responsibility of bill would still leave that responsibility with the state board of education but it would give a bit more latitude in terms of these and in terms of accommodation quite often we found that especially in issues of reciprocity that has been delaying and many of these delays that have been because of the really not enough resources to call the expenses that are required to restate what does not intend nor does it have to decide to make money on licensure process but they would like to do this in an expeditious manner and this is part of the reason that we had with bill you know that current law allows democratic administration changes of video at all to get license is for your three dollars window extension of your file dollars initial application $55 initial application state licenses $85 this proposal really substitute what those fees are five dollars for demographic administrative changes to $45 with duplicate license is an window extension

Details initial application form that when you say that would graduate programs up to $80.00 and an initial application of state V41 $125 so that the state does not lose money on this and we think that this will also look make it more expeditious and licensing fall sodality to still have long waits for licenses the pumping they would do it opens up all online and all the land prices four new works and applications net meeting questions(SPEAKER CHANGES) that apply to this one might call if they will suspend for the Commission and bill sponsors and that's just sad thing is that NMS that when brief comment MMC AES support this legislation and analyze what SSD a witness the fact that MV licensure process for BEI and more are active here, friendly and will be quicker MM that way we can get more teachers license in a shorter-term MI 92 by requesting support thinking hurdle in one very briefly at 1998 to last from PC score on increased income efficiency stamp away just be able to do things and not slow down clinic featuring the question is why the issue could experience somewhere helpers of four months S4 to 7/8 to work on some answers: put that on your recent columns to recognize why this question of likes the bikes I feel the opposition of this bill about percent claim to fame is chairman, there is opposition as well as Steffi Zimmerman away for a moment, and I have the following its sole philosophical problem here we have not given our state employees and geese and raised 16 years from the minutes, charging more to keep their licenses I have a big problem with the percentage of the response after the reason for the fees that simply means to me, the national calls for this is really a awash for buying knowledge and it is five to update the costs of the watts riots that given the platinum and (SPEAKER CHANGES) Mr. Moore, I can appreciate (SPEAKER CHANGES) that we try to recoup lost many areas caller until we get out of state employees back to where they should be with their salaries and wages I don't think we should put an additional burden of a 2% bond and taking the stand by the same question those represent a clean and while I understand you want to be able two of you as much as you can allow an understanding what could expenses I also understand teachers caller ID never been given the races, got an E mail to like you wouldn't believe about the bill we just go down and Malibu were lower rates of three or number and I don't understand that that to me doesn't make sense of your jobs thank the staffing, the same venue here at Hodges amassed a question that's as good as a question and you know the answer to that, believe the question arises today is a incentive for a VAC 2 interesting ice and snow could follow: seven to basically we are we're out here nearly all the time in our teachers are underpaid that yet we think we ought to go up 50% on licensure Faye Resnick stands Ireland and saint SNB signee T chairs the city to support any profession NB, could not have complaints from SS us added that licensing process testing says slap a NS Cole said that IFI error and that processes since 5:00 PDT Tuesday into the classroom, I would suggest that the NFL this law expert IIC Sheridan Opec and complains that we get from ??......

Late at heart attacks from that Neil E warren Harding my system shares his best outcome impetus to share of about three segments in a may not understand from their feet across bed you know we have a $12,000,000,000 education budget in the study and seems like within the budget we could go on for the subsidized using nine, causing the teachers database increase the IMF is the name of money,: $30.00 to 45 minutes only $15.00 but this doesn't seem like a symbiosis severely reduced have been the sponsors of this is not decided to affect budget in all this is just confined to license the nation to choosing to get those teachings of state or not licensed and also to get go from the depths changes in the licenses of, the potential ones that does not and will subtract from the actual budget is our responsibility to provide both wages and the yields nothing to talk about things, said that it is clear five briefly of licensees delta got 13 people watch because kill an amendment: (SPEAKER CHANGES0 on this one and one more before we urge our journals. By the suggestion that we should increase the budget and thank you or me to move on to your car for the first time ever represented Cleveland said when I was thinking of them, eighths. CNN's Christiane opposition to this daily and weekend he has every tanker T2 is talking about moralez a while and schools beginning of bounds salary meeting of the cost of living in the seventh year in CC and D dollars is allowed to come up with a specially for any teacher because you see if any activity that umbrella stand on this page CLI think that's really unfortunate Su-CRS certainly understand as that someone was a former press limited hiring NT terrace, REM officials argue that problem lies within the department of public instruction and as some of life in the Dept of Defense seven BC season for adding more money and more C's is not the way L.a. (SPEAKER CHANGES) I'll have to pay for CNN interview that would give them more closely divided that these fees up to two against designed so that the decline in the pool points to clinch their costs so that in the state board had said initial responsibility anyway two separate the daily have a which is trying to ensure more efficiency and industry 100 outlook-as chairman and I just wanted to have followed to come in the direction that we have raised me since 1998 would like the records show that shells someone members last receiver rays or increasing Caribbean or increased travel in 199490 4:00 PM ends below calls from a gun and resume of them as chairman for the second time in seven years of the senate, some missing several outside lately john warden of polish bell and one for the next XL is hostile to 91 we have these years underground was sent to the rose bowl to respond to the Marshall was there say I was closed, and we have presentation by representative from pursuing the combination of Gerard, hostile to 91 to very simple tool, a real advantage basically what happened instead we started our shores school an inventor for counting on realize that. But as the new charter school we would not leading to the funds and, no attack Libya the circles children, 50, and we haven't really basically almost and lay on August and early September and we've literally come out of our pockets two of Dave Burgess basic stuff like scalded and making sure we had done some things like that's ??.....

Let this slip this is a sample build a sense that you can get the money earlier any campaign back with your other three allotments to come out in the above offense is that the charter schools to pay by billions in three different departments and sell this is almost like a tall and sensitivity about 220-5000 dollars and if you take that continue with this kid has come out of your other three are missing from a viewer calls absolutely no money to state the slowest official note this is the name of the clicker so you can actually start operating quicker the falcons feels about . (SPEAKER CHANGES) The reviews and later thank you very much, Mr. Sharon bacon members, would that have some concern that the bill but I think I am an amendment that would answer my concern allow me to go for the bill and the amendment that deals with some have actually work simply will Rogers chat about the need to get a $25,000 up front but if the charter as we know tours of condos belly up and so there are many more payments that we get the 25,000 that this simply says the good guy that little risk is on the was on the on the charter should be on the taxpayer that if they don't have any money to pay back the Golan belly of the day that the board as a person be liable for the $25,000 in repair the amount because if you go door to do this for charters and we all of their own be some acceptance of responsibility and so this just as if you go belly up, it is no more money to pay back now we get kids back and doing about that we do that, but we ought to be able to get a $25,000 back in the role of being accepted some responsibility and which happens in other corporate affairs and so I would ask adoption of human further discussion and debate on him and I would like to say that this publication of the bill are happy that this would not be a problem we don't have a problem with him about the fact that dictates that the people are controlled with realignment of soul you automatically have to pay for the $5000 to go belly up to not until after logging which is to take the law. (SPEAKER CHANGES) But it didn't find that they pay the price back self-employed by the lapels and open and the chairman of the obvious question in the sponsor. Pierce plans to close at nine and then use of cocaine to love this question of sponsor on if you are a lot of simply home mouse and the procedures USA cartel simply require us to be incorporated in the reasons I gave for that was if the church were soon be incorporated mean that money often church will be partially loud so the market conflict between an idea in which a saying here is playing its employees but sure I'm not sure I can completely subtle public policy that you were operating under, but this simply says those members aboard virtues of nonprofit corporation that if you are partly to have the money otherwise you taken the taxpayer money irresponsible to pay practices and quite as represent Brennan says because you're not assuming that that goes belly up between the number one and number two or two and three whenever we have today and you've got this initial $25,000 , to store can now use school goes belly up and there isn't any mother money of one race you have to go do this in taking the taxpayer money is the person should be out the rest is the taxpayers so this is overwriting any other obligation you have an obligation for callback the lack of a better way of saying a pullback revision within this situation say, callback provision that we would have many other taxpayer money we can develop fatal blow to their obligation to do all of the new chairman greenspan on the our public schools and J day one North Carolina no there's no callback for the Board of Directors not all this is asking more for palpable public school that you're asking from private industry may further discussion and debate on the amendment to nine) hundred signify by supporting nice old suppose, the icecap that the men have a share earlier shown here I don't think that correct a misstep into multiple and staying in conference attracting to be a related to the inappropriate from the general fund, so when the competition, found out that those hope that the school budget during your pool where are we gonna have a commitment is morning , we got a target this morning on them: four billion dollars ??.....

So which U.S. schools that had 1457, I am: four billion and we have been prodding and, in message that amount in targeting which means something else that you can withstand a card at the behest of Famer useful to you in on another week page 42 and politics is: affected by difficult legal have to work within the parameters that we've been given on the budget and every time you take something you have something to indicate something, it is, they had budgeted read a high school in nearby to be very very clear (SPEAKER CHANGES) that situation, but a very good care of those stocks for a business into something that only two of one appropriations and that they get up earlier figure fighters to be one appropriations soul into schools are posted a 40 $1000 they're only get $40,000 invested millennium Oregonian leads all one appropriations chairman Mr. U, Brian Mitchell morning and away from the media have no idea how to budget work and have the slightest idea that comes to a new poll that after we were you get a target you get 79 and then you got to work within its economic you get. One record like a word about UN poco FA just the opposite end sub ask a question of initial rates SC 119 -90 depot created already aware of some headway on the lookout, we allocate how we come to bat for scholarships from mighty ducks on this bill goes to appropriation from your own ballpark. Balanced it all up and sell this bill is asking for 1.5 million without a doubt what is the one I thought we would try to establish whether not loans would be available on the spill your goal is to say this publisher corporation set up operations funds that we find it in the back window in the budget than a bill would do would be enacted on this is a pure war to stop the halls of the following questions and more self and the way I would be, well within 1.5 come from , (SPEAKER CHANGES) but one that would be held in the appropriations process and in the budget warned it would not be aware now must determine what purpose of this committee is a term of the policy is one that the that we recommend the general assembly of my employer will come when we get two be a budget process are being replaced about it and I appreciate the chairs can serve lunches, and try to grapple with what funds to which a minimum standard were cut and that's given in section three, I've fought I understood that the money what is really otherwise there that is this is not a new allocation simply changing the timing of the allocations but I'm not sure I'm Leon anymore I just wonder if the staff to comment on the disco, try to figure that out that kids can get a match to give the misfortune to become a division here are still if you are in all wars be an important vote on this and a few minutes two would be good mixture of my questions are related ones without an eyewitness to repair the Hubble war and cut into production , which carried in that section three , the bill does create a new appropriations for this would be new money so would be therefore be held here in the budget process taking the developer had a malignant on the process and beginning Monday, charter school is applying to the state award if they have to submit some sort of business planner financial model to the state award, prior to being approved and when to stop the deal with better through that process that this is mostly at the school actually gets a charter for they've gone to all of that process the bill states for index would be a charter of the ??.............

that there was no fiscal note required for this bill, and I wanna make that completely clear, that there's no fiscal note required, because it is not. The reason why we have to do a different appropriation is because of the timing of the money. But it actually doesn't cost us any more money to do it. It's because we're gonna get it before fiscal year's up. But, like, that's what I was explained by staff. So, but, like, we didn't have to have a fiscal note because everybody pays the money back. And, and they actually, there is no, there is no way that the money not get there because you get three allotments, and in those three allotments it just, it's just, look at it like a draw versus commission type thing. And, and, if you have, if you get $24,000 advance, then three times out of your three allotments, we're take $8,000 out to make sure that we pay the 24,000 [that's what this is?].[crosstalk] [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Brandon, we starting to get into appropriations and not policy. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yeah. [SPEAKER CHANGES] But I see that [Mr. Nordstrum?] has a follow-up comment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Uh, sure, Chris Nordstrum, fiscal research. Just to clarify, uh, there was no fiscal note required on the bill because there are no fiscal notes required on any bills other than those dealing with retirement system, there would be a fiscal impact related to this bill of the amount appropriated in section three $1, 575,000, which would be an impact for increased expenditures from the general fund. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Representative Adams. [SPEAKER CHANGES] A question to Representative Brandon, you mentioned, uh, that this bill came about as a result of a school, a charter school in Guilford County, what school are you referring to, sir? [SPEAKER CHANGES] The one that I serve as a board of the Point Leadership Academy, where we start early and we start strong. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Follow up. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Follow up. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Where, where is the school? [SPEAKER CHANGES] The school is in High Point, North Carolina. [SPEAKER CHANGES] All right, we're going to take two more questions and then we're gonna vote. Representative Warren. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Question for Representative Brandon, please. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Go ahead. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Brandon, I wanna make sure I understand, you're saying that the $25,000 is basically secured by virtue of being able to be payed out out of three future allotments to the charter school. I, I'm not the brightest bulb on the tree, but it seems to me like you're saying we're gonna pay Peter from Peter. Uh, I don't see where that's secured, [Ed?]. Again, I may be not looking at it correctly, but if you go belly up, you don't have those allotments coming anymore, correct? [SPEAKER CHANGES] They, you get, as, once you get a charter, Representative Warren, you have x amount of students, right? So you automatically have that money coming for the entire year. That's why it's really no risk at all. If I have 50 students and I'm going to get $8,000 per the, per student, I'm gonna get the money for that, and this just says that I can get the money quicker. Because, what's happening now, charter schools are getting their money in August or September and they have to open the door. So if you care about kids, regardless of your, if you feel about charter schools, but if you care about kids and you wanna make sure that the charter schools that are open have adequate funding to make sure that they can take care of those kids when they get there, then you will vote for this bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Follow up? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Brief follow up. Yes. I just wanna say, speaking about the bill, I, I support charter schools and I supported very strongly the removal of the cap on charter schools, but I believe charter schools shouldn't start or apply for a charter until they're financially viable and able to start up on their own. I uh, I think there's a lot of, to me it's just like starting a business, if you're under-funded you shouldn't be applying for it. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Wilkins. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Chair, I can respond to Representative Elmore's question if you would like. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Please. Briefly. [SPEAKER CHANGES] That business plan first goes to the charter school advisory committee which makes its presentation to the state board. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I thank you very much. Representative Jones, you're recognized for a motion. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chairman. I move for a favorable report to propose Committee Substitute for House Bill 291, unfavorable to the original, as amended. Unfavorable to the original with a referral to appropriations. [SPEAKER CHANGES] You've heard the motion, all those in favor say aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] All those opposed, no. [SPEAKER CHANGES] No. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Division. [SPEAKER CHANGES] All those in favor raise your hands. All those opposed raise your hands. The no's have it, the bill is defeated. And the meeting is adjourned.

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