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House | April 23, 2013 | Committee Room | House Appropriations

Full MP3 Audio File

Registration and voting curbside as well as registered voters who have a religious objection to being photographed in a few minutes he will go into detail on that, but any voter who complies with subsection A, that is he has a photo id, will be permitted to vote a normal ballot. Those who do not comply with this section would be permitted to vote a provisional ballot which would be counted in accordance to the procedures outlined here in. Definition of photo identification. We'll run through these pretty quickly for you. If you weren't in one of the other two committees or missed all of our hearings. Photo ID would include any identification card that bears either an expiration date or a date of issuance and is not more than ten years beyond the expiration date or date of issuance, whichever is later, issued by a branch, department, agency, or entity of the United States. This state or any other state such as any of the following types of items. A North Carolina drivers license, a special North Carolina ID card, a U.S. Passport, an employee identification card, a United States military ID, an ID issued by the University of North Carolina or its constituent institutions, an identification card issued by North Carolina community colleges, an ID state issued to a fireman, ems, hospital employer, or law enforcement officer, an ID issued by a unit of local government, public authority or special district as defined in general statue 159-7., an id card issued for public assistance. Also accepted would be a veteran's identification card issued by the United States Department of Veteran Affairs and used at veteran administration medical facilities or an identification card that bears the date of expiration that was not expired on the day that the voter reached the age of 70, issued by a branch, department, agency or entity of the United States this state or any other state. I'm going to skip over to page 13, section 17. Since this is appropriations we'll talk about where the money would go. Section 17 refers to the education and publicity requirements and how were going to educate the public on the photo id requirement. Counties can use their regular process to notify voters of assignments and reassignments to districts for election to the various offices. Counties can send new voter registration cards to voters as a result of new registrations, changes of address. Counties can also maintain a Board of Elections' website. Notice of elections appointed by the county's Boards of Elections under these statues for the 2014 primary and general elections will include a brief statement that photo identification will be required to vote in person beginning in 2016. The SPOE shall include on its website information about the provisions of part two. Counties will post at their polls and early voting sites beginning with the 2014 primary elections informations about provision two of this act. The Voter Information Verification Advisory Board, is required by part one of this act. Shall provide education and assistance to voters and newly registered voters information about the provisions of part two. The state board of elections shall distribute information about the photo identification requirements to groups and organizations serving persons with disabilities or the elderly. and would also publish a voter guide that includes the voter identification procedures and requirements set forth in part two. As I said earlier, the VIVA program will include field operatives that will work hand in hand with registered political parties in the various counties and the party chairmen of those respective political parties, and with core groups of volunteers to do community outreaches for education and registration of voters to socialize this idea. Also, if you look at section 22. We'll drop down their; item 5. This will be a phase in operation beginning on January 1st, 2014 and applying to every primary and election held thereafter. Voters will be asked when they appear to vote if they have a photo id, they will not be required to have one to...

Devoted that time but they will be asked if they'd even if they do not that we asked if they would like the one side for assistance to get one that information will be shared with Aviva Couric feel group and with party chairs and the the outreach would begin to target those folks specifically let indicated they do not have an ID and that will make an effort to get them one and will be at approximate 24 months to make that happen Back of the section 20 going forward this bill instructs the state board of elections to begin to research and study the concept of going digital for him the voting process that is to incorporate an electronic program creating a statewide database of digital photos so that we will have is another leg or another method available to the voter something as simple as walking up stating your name they can type in your name and up pops your picture The the information which is simply confirm that they will report back to the city report back to the joint legislative elections oversight committee by April 1, 2014 so we get moving on this and having Teradata returned to representative Tom Murray to explain other parts of the rivers and Warner will quickly followed up on some comments that were minimal remade the photo the quiet does not supersede the requirements required for registration that you still have to be a citizen he still has to have residence in our stay in orbit of semester threshold issue for voting the head when you can present yourself to vote that present a photo ID Persepolis legislations is one point automatic additional you think they are going digital thief is crucial from an appropriations perspective for something that will have a significant savings of time and efficiency for our precinct officials if you'll go back to page 3 in section 5 is a new statute that that deals with evaluation of determination of non-reasonable resemblance of photo identification and these section this section deals with what happens if the election official determines that the photo does not bear a reasonable resemblance in any case this section will be construed in a light most favorable favorable to the voter and so that's that's that section 5 does moving on to section 6 if an individual has a religious objection to being photographed this section details the process that individual can go through in order to a register that objection with the County Board of elections moving on to section 9 you look at this details her sideloading hand on if an individual has a physical disability that prevents them from being able to physically walk into the polling location we will allow them to represent a common document or a thought a lot the in order to vote curbside for these individuals with physical disabilities on and see thousand 12 my understanding that less than 10,000 people on election day. Curbside that is to give you decide a an idea of the scope of the number of voters voted curbside on election day moving on to section 11 on page 6 this details the counting of provisional ballots if an individual resents himself without a photo ID that will be offered the opportunity cast a provisional ballot in this details what what that individual has to do in order to get that that vote counted after the provisional ballot is counted that section 11 section 12 deals with the existing law on how individuals are challenged any any registered voter at that precinct and challenging voter any time this just allows for a challenge to the chance to be made if the voter does not present a photo ID in accordance with the statute of perception in this legislation believe that concludes

I get to pick up on page 7 part 3, where it talks about implementation. the big issue on implementation had been if you're going to start requiring a photo id for people, how do they go about getting one if they don't have one. so we put in place the system by which you can get a photo id if you do not have one. the portion that "representative warren" described about viva is a way for us to help people know that they're going to need the ids and we're going to help them obtain it. what this does is go through and talk about how we go about helping them obtain it and what qualifications do they need to have to get it free. Accentually if you look on section 13, items 1 and 2 accentually all of the first four items already exist in some form. If somebody needs a non operator id card and they go to the board or to the DMV, to get it, if they are legally blind, if they’re over 70 years old, number 3 was in there in a different form. But basically if they have it and expired driver license and for some reason can’t get a new drivers license, they can use the expired drivers license to help them get a non operator id card. that’s on 3 and not pay a charge for it. On 4 if they’re homeless and have documentation that they’re homeless and then the new portion is 5 which said that, if they come to the DMV to get a non operator card, and they state that they’re getting it for the purpose of voting, that they do not have any alternatives and they sign an affidavit to that affect, then we will give them the card for free. Then on 6, this was something that on the next page on page 8, item 6 was added in the last committee and what this does is broaden that even more. Lets say the person through viva heard about the need for voter id card and to register, but they realized they are not yet a register voter, but they’re going to need the id card anyway. Rather than having to make them make two trips. Under 6, since the DMV is already doing registering people to vote when they come get a drivers license. What this will allow for them to also qualify for the free card if they’re registering and getting the id card for the purpose of voting. So that was added in the last committee. Then when you go to, lets see, then section 14, starts to deal with how we’re going to reimburse the clerks and registrars for the background information. So, we’re going to reimburse the DMV if the person has signed this affidavit saying that they need the free card for the purpose of voting. But lets say in order to get that card, they had to go to the clerk to get a copy of their birth certificate or their marriage certificate. And they also are getting that only for the purpose of voting, then when they go to the clerk they can sign a form that saids, I’m getting this for the purpose of voting. The clerk will then take that, verify it either online or by phone however they need to or the person can present their registration card to verify that they’re getting this and for their registered voter and they’re getting this for the purpose of voting and they sign that and the clerk will use that form to get reimbursed by the board of elections. So there were some concerns that the free cards would detrimentally be sort of an unfunded mandate. And so we made sure, that anybody who's issuing this and doing this for free, would be reimbursed. So those are those sections. Then if you skip ahead, to page 11, section 16, it’s the method for requesting an absentee ballet. What I just skipped over, was the part on how they create the ballet itself. You can read the details on that. But one thing we did change was, the method of requesting an absentee ballet. There will be a form like this. There’s a version of it, that already online, but we’re going to tweek it somewhat. But there will be a form like this, that you’ll need to fill out, if you want to request and absentee ballet. You can get that form online, you can call or go to the board of elections and ask for it, or you can write and ask them to send that form to you. But the form will have to be filled out. The things that we’re adding to that form, which will be part or your identity, is that you will need a drivers license and or the last four digits of your social security number, your birth date, residence name. It does allow for instance the mother of kids that use to be in college. It does allow a verifiable legal guardian to request that information on behalf of someone else. And once you fill out that information, it also, if you look on the next page on page 12, it goes through all those items, but on line 10, it also saids that in addition to that, we like for you to produce one of the have it documents, since you’re not producing a photo id. So once the board of elections gets this form they….

We’ll then verify that you are a registered voter. One of the questions that came up was, well sometimes depending on when you registered to vote, you might have provided the last four digits of your Social Security Number, or you might have provided your driver’s license number. This also allows the DMV to update their records because you are signing that this is you and that this is your real information. If you happen to provide your driver’s license one time and your social security the other time, they will update their records so that they have both of them for you for in the future. That’s what that is. The verification. Then if you’ll go down to line 28, the procedure for an absentee ballot. I don’t know how many of ya’ll have voted absentee before but it comes, and your ballot is supposed to be secret so it goes inside an envelope, and all of your documentations on the outside of that envelope. Now remember you’ve already provided it one time to request the form. So then we go back through and on the outside of the envelope you are to sign it. The one thing that is substantially new on that is you have to have two people witness that you signed it. That you’re the person who filled it out, and that you’re the person who signed it and put it in there. Two people have to witness it. They also have to put their address on there so if we need to verify who they are we have both their name and address. Then if you’ll go to page thirteen, line nineteen which is Section 16. Verifiable legal guardian. In most cases a legal guardian is a relative, friend, trustee, something like that, but there are cases where people may be in institutions where the verifiable legal guardian is not one individual that they have regular contact with. So in those cases normally the verifiable legal guardian had to be somebody that they were seeing on a regular basis. In those cases what we added here was if you’re in one of those situations where the verifiable legal guardian is technical, technically the Execute Director of a large organization, that that Executive Director who is the legal guardian may appoint up to ten people and record those people with the state Board of Elections so we know who they are, and those people can then sign as the verifiable legal guardian if they needed on any of these other absentee pieces. I think that’s my last one but I will check. If you go to page fourteen, Sections 18 and 19 just talk about the fact that we are going to reimburse them through the Division of Motor Vehicles which is why we’re here in appropriations and that all of the forms and such, and all the instructions will have to be posted both online and other ways. They will also have to post prominently what happens if you sign and do this fraudulently that you are committing a crime. I believe that is the end of the presentation and we’re now available for questions and or amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] We will move into amendments at this time. The first amendment that we have that has been passed out is amendment number 12. Representative Fulghum you are recognized to introduce your amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chairman. If I might defer initially to Representative McNeil he had some language that he wanted also to put in this amendment. If I might ask him to address his first part on page two line 27. Mr. Chairman is that possible? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Fulghum is the substance of what Mr. McNeil is going to speak about your amendment 12? [SPEAKER CHANGES] It is part of it and I was asked to add this particular word change. I can speak to that as well if you’d like me to do that. [SPEAKER CHANGES] We’ll recognize Mr. McNeil to speak to the amendment then we’ll take the amendment up. This number 12 up. Representative McNeil. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes, sir. On page two, line 27 my concern was that the language in the bill as it was written, it just says every individual, and I didn’t think in keeping with the purpose of this bill that every individual properly documented what the intent of this bill was. My original thoughts in changing the word individual here was to put for every US Citizen voting in person. However, it was explained to me that

Had to be a US citizen to register to vote anyway. So a compromise language with Mr. Fulghum and Mr. Warren was to add this language in. And I believe it clarifies what individual in this context means. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Chairman, I’ll be glad to remark upon the portion that I had in my amendment, if I may. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Is that before us? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes sir. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Briefly. [SPEAKER CHANGES] On page 5, lines 33 through 44, this is the section involving curbside voting. This part from number 3 on seems to me unnecessary in regards to the requirement for curbside voting identification. The first 2 parts would remain under B1 and 2, photo ID or a copy of a ?? document. The remainder of the bill contains language on page 7, referencing the desire to get voter ID or photo ID for homeless, disabled, aged and so-forth. So I thought this was a redundant portion of the bill and unnecessary and I wanted to remove that. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Bill sponsors wish to comment? [SPEAKER CHANGES] We appreciate the amendment sponsors working together, so we only had to have one on this and working with this on the language and we commend the amendment to you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Further questions from the committee members on this amendment? If not, all those in favor of the amendment signify by saying aye. All opposed, no. The ayes have it and the amendment is adopted. The next amendment we will take up is Amendment number 14, offered by Representative Hager. It’ll be AST47 version 1. AST47, version 1. Sponsored by Representative Hager. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chairman. My microphone’s not working. ?? over here to your left. Move my papers over here. This amendment allows the recognition of the Department of Interior authorized tribal, federally issued tribal ID for the Cherokee Indians. This ID is issued with a picture, it’s got a date of issue, a birth date, signature of the enrollment officer, enrollment number, and the tribal blood degree. You can use this ID for cashing checks, revenue bank account, all major airports for boarding airplanes, getting a passport, all the things you would usually use your state license ID for. So the amendment basically recognizes this as an ID by which you could vote with. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Bill sponsors with to comment on the amendment? [SPEAKER CHANGES] I think the amendment sponsor explained it well. We support this amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Further comments or questions? Representative Corbett. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chairman. A question of the amendment sponsor. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes sir. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Chairman, there’s no mention of a photo ID. I support the amendment, but I just wondered would there be a need for adding mention of a photo ID? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative, might as well be. Mr. Cohen is recognized. [SPEAKER CHANGES] If you look back on page 2, line 48 which precedes all those numbers. Page 2, line 48. All those documents on that list, which 4 is being added, must contain a photograph. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chairman. Thank you Mr. Cohen. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Michaux. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Does this, you say federally recognized tribe. Even if that card does not have a photo on it, is it still recognized? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Chairman. Just real quick, as far as this amendment is concerned, this amendment does as Mr. Cohen says, does contain a photo ID so it would be under that ??

I'll let Mr. Cohen answer the other question, but I just wanted to make sure that everyone understand that this is under the Photo ID section. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Follow-up. [SPEAKER CHANGES] That is correct. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Then any other tribe that is not federally recognized would have to follow through on what we've got in the bill itself. Is that correct? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Hager, can you answer that? [SPEAKER CHANGES] As far as I know, and Mr. Cohen is shaking his head, that is correct. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Harrison. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Representative ?? brought up my question. I was looking through the NCSL analysis of other state requirements. I didn't know that any of those other tribal ID opportunities were limited to federal, and I'm just wondering why we are not going to allow such as the Lumbee Indian tribal photo ID or other tribes in North Carolina that may not be federally recognized. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I believe there may be some work going on figuring out a way to make that happen. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Graham. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just wanted to reiterate what was said. We are trying to work on some language that would give state recognized tribes the same opportunity. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Further comments, questions for members of the committee? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Chair. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Pittman. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I don't know how serious to take this, but I'm noticing a lot of typographical errors. There's one, I think, in this amendment as it's given where it says "the date OR expiration". It should be "the date OF expiration". I found some in the bill that's been given to us, and I just want to make sure that we thoroughly go through and make sure that's taken care of. [SPEAKER CHANGES] We'll let the staff take care of that. That'll be taken care of. Thank you for that. Other comments, questions regarding the amendment? If not, all those who favor the amendment, please signify by saying aye. All opposed no. The ayes have it, and the amendment is adopted. Representative Hall, we have an amendment from you, AST 31 Version 2, that I understand that you want to withdraw that amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes, Mr. Chairman. If I could, I would like to send forth… [SPEAKER CHANGES] We'll get to that one later. AST 46 Version 2. Representative Speciale. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Actually, it should be Version 3. [SPEAKER CHANGES] It should be Version 3, I've been advised by the staff. Let me mention something while you are finding Representative Speciale's amendment at your place. We, of course, have to be out of here at 9:50 in this room, so we will be taking a vote at 9:45. If we do not get to your amendment by that time, then certainly you are free to offer those, propose those amendments for the floor. We'll certainly try to dispose of as many amendments between now and 9:45 as we can, but we will be taking a vote on the bill. Representative Speciale, if you would present your amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Basically, what this amendment does is it removes all of those identification cards except for four. Four pieces of identification: a North Carolina driver's license, a North Carolina ID card, a U.S. Military identification card, or a passport. Too many of those other items are easily made on the computers. Every college kid or high school kid has got someone he can go to get fake IDs so he can go out, change his date, his age, so he can go out and drink. They're just too easy to make. The other change on it is… The idea is, if you come in and you don't have one of those IDs, you would provide a fingerprint. They have little fingerprint kits like the one I have in my hand here that cost $6. Doesn't leave ink stain on you. You just put your fingerprint on your ballot, and then you vote. It's not a provisional, it's a ballot. You're done, you're done voting, you don't have to come back, everything's good to go. At some later date, if something happens and you're accused of fraud, somebody says, "Hey, I saw this guy come in four times", they can match those documents together and show that you voted, and we've got the evidence we need for conviction. Basically, that's what we're looking at. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Chairman. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Bill's sponsor want to comment [SPEAKER CHANGES] The bill's sponsors let me, I'll talk the second half first. The bill's sponsor looked at a number of these data recognition opportunities. We think they're close to being usable. They're not quite

area and so there's a study in the bill that asks the B O E to study and put together things like this and how might they work and how we would implement them so we appreciate and recognize that part of it but it is not ready yet for prime time. We've done a lot of looking into it because it could have save us money, potentially on the I D. But it's not ready yet. In terms of limiting the number of I D's we've got to remember this is not the registration process, this is simply showing you are who you say you are. And we need to recognize that people go through a tougher process when they are registering than when they come and they just are proving they are who they say they are so let's be careful not to confuse the two. We think the list that we have makes it as easy as possible for people who are qualified voters to come in and show their I D and be able to vote. And so we would ask you to not support the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Other comments? Representative Warren, do you wish to comment on the amendment? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Also some of the I D's proposes to eliminate were passed on house bill three fifty one, the last session. Bill sponsors ask you respectfully to vote no on the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Others wishing to comment on the amendment? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mister chair. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Floyd. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I'm in agreement with the sponsor because I had a similar bill that I was told that section twenty of this bill was not ready at that particular point in time but in the future it would. So I'm in agreement to support the bill sponsor. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Further comments? On the amendment. Hearing none, all those in favor of the amendment please signify by saying aye. All those opposed signify by saying no. The amendment fails. The next amendment is AST 32 version 2. Representative Glazier. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Over here mister chair. [SPEAKER CHANGES] You are recognized to present your amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you very much mister chairman and members [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mister chair, could you hold for just a second. We're just now getting that amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Well this one is one that should be on your desk now. You should have this already. [SPEAKER CHANGES] May I proceed, mister chair? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Glazier, proceed please. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you very much mister chair. Members this is in pretty simple language that says in those cases were the registered voter forgot or ?? doesn't have his photo I D but an election worker with board independently confirms their identity from personal knowledge, they know them, they're neighbors, they're cousins, whatever it may be, the voter would not be required to provide the photo I D. The idea behind photo I D's is to eliminate any fraud. There is no possibility of fraud where the election workers knows someone who's been voting at the polls for twenty or thirty or forty years and it makes it much harder for this person to vote while serving absolutely no governmental interest where everybody at that precinct knows this is who they say they are. So to try balance out pragmatic concerns with still maintaing the goals of the legislation, I would ask for your support on the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Samuelson is recognized. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you. The bill sponsors considered this option when we went through debate and decided that we could not support it. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Iler. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you mister chairman. I support the bill sponsors and this is part of the problem not part of the solution. So, I lend my vote to the sponsors. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Further comment on the amendment? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mister chair. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Lucas. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you mister chair. Inquirty. Is there any reason or rationale that this would not be considered since the election officials- I imagine that their credibility should be viable. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Samuelson. [SPEAKER CHANGES] In most areas of the state, people move around a lot. We don't have people staying forever. I know I change precincts every couple of years so the idea that the precinct workers would be able to do so is not as certain as it use to be. And we're bending over backwards to make sure everybody has the opportunity to have an I D so there shouldn't be

Problems with someone not having an ID. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Hager ? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chairman. I think this creates a two tier system it’s that ok my neighbors have to go through one lower threshold that I may or may not know but everybody else has to go through a higher threshold which I think we should put everybody through the same threshold. no matter if you know him or you think you know him or you might know him or your cousin knows him or whatever I think everybody should go through he same threshold so I’d ask everybody to vote no on this amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Further comment? If not, all those in favor of the amendment signify by saying aye [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES]All those opposed signify by saying no. [SPEAKER CHANGES] No. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The no’s have it and the amendment is not agreed to. The next amendment is AST 33 version 3 Representative Adams is recognized to present her amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES]Thank you me chair basically this amendment will allow students who are attending private colleges to have the same rights as other students who attend our public universities to be able to vote we have 36 private colleges in north Carolina enrolling approximately 89,000 students. I just heard one of the members talk about a two tiered system. What we have now in this bill discriminates against those students who attend private colleges and so what this amendment does is give the same right and privilege to students attending private universities to be able to use their identification issued by their schools as a way for them to vote. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Samuels? The bill sponsors also debated this in another committee in the interest of time I won’t go into all the details but we do oppose this. The students all have the same right they can get a government issued ID card. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Stam I opposed the amendment. I love our private colleges or universities but the term accredited really means very little if you know a lot about accreditation and the problem is that this is not the government we can’t hold the private universities accountable in the same ways we can hold the public universities. [SPEAKER CHANGES]Representative Harrison. Thank you Mr. chair I just want to speak in favor of the amendment and reviewing the sixteen states that allow student ID to qualify for the photo ID requirement it’s not clear that any of them make a distinction between private and a public university just that the college needed to be located in the state. I would support the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Further comments on the amendment? Representative Queen? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes Mr. Chairman again in our state we have thirty some private colleges that educate over 80,000young people each year this is an incredible asset to our state and toe engage these citizens these young folks early in the civic activities of this state to bond them to this state because I think a number of them come from outside the state become citizens and the whole asset of having these wonderful private universities is to bring the finest and best from everywhere including north Carolina citizens to become North Carolina citizens so I think this is just a way to engage our young people in becoming active citizens as early as possible and I thinks a very good amendment and I support it. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Adams? Thank you Mr. Chairman I'd speak a second time you know our private colleges do make an investment in the state as a matter of fact if these 89,000 students try to enroll in our public universities we wouldn’t have room for them we also provide in our budget support for student who attend these colleges in a way of tuition and I just think it’s just a shame for us to discriminate against these student and we're making provisions for other student in the same bill so I would appreciate of you would support this amendment it is the right thing to do. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Further comments. Seeming none, all those in favor of the amendment please signify by saying aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye.All those opposed signify by saying no. [SPEAKER CHANGES] No. [SPEAKER CHANGES] And the amendment is not agreed to. The next amendment is AST 37 version 3. Representative Rucho. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes Mr. Chairman, this amendment simply lets the folks

An ID of an individual that is more than 10 years beyond the date of expiration or issuance be used particularly in fact if a voter or somebody can independently confirm, an election worker who knows that person can independently confirm that that is the person. I move its adoption. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Samuelson. [SPEAKER CHANGES] We have not seen this particular one before but the whole issue of how long can something be expired before it's no longer valid has been debated at length, we would ask you to not support this amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Chairman. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Michaux. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I'd like to correct representative Samuelson, you have seen this before. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I stand corrected. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Further comment? Seeing none, all those in favor of the amendment please signify by saying aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Opposed no. [SPEAKER CHANGES] No. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The no's have it and the amendment is not agreed to. Amendment AST38.version3, representative Glazier. Wait a minute, I think that's - strike that one, strike that one. AST39 version 2, representative Glazier. That's not out yet? Okay. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Chair. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Okay, skip that. AST31 version 3, representative Fisher, you should have that one. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chairman. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Fisher is recognized. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I am right over here. Thank you Mr. Chairman. Ladies and gentlemen of the committee, this amendment just adds one additional exception to the photo identification requirement on page two at lines 36 and 37, and it allows for a registered voter who is a victim of a national disaster who is without an ID to be able to vote without that photo identification if they have completed a form that is supplied by the board of elections or by the state board of elections. And before when we ran this amendment it was that the form would have to be supplied. This just actually makes this one fo the exception in case of a national disaster that's declared by either the President or by the Governor of the state, to allow for this person to go ahead and vote if they have completed a form and have no photo ID currently. And that's up to 60 days before the election. I move adoption of the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Samuelson. [SPEAKER CHANGES] If you look on page six, line 35, we already have a provision if there's been a natural disaster. I'm not frankly exactly sure what the difference in yours is except maybe you're not allowing them to vote provision, but we do have provisions for natural disasters. They don't happen very often and so we would request that you not support the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Comments, questions? Seeing none all those in favor of the amendment please signify by saying aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] All opposed nay. [SPEAKER CHANGES] No. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The nay's have it and the amendment is not agreed to. Amendment AST39 version 2, representative Glazier is recognized. You should have it representative Glazier. I think it is being passed out. We'll be at ease for a moment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Chair I've got 38 was passed out, 39 I don't have, 38, AST38 version 3 I've got. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Well let's take up that one representative Glazier. [SPEAKER CHANGES] We'll do that one? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Proceed. [SPEAKER CHANGES] AST38 version 3, this is a carry on to the one we did but with a little more specificity. This is based on the exact provision that exists in Alabama's law and pulled it off of the Alabama law yesterday. And what Alabama law says is that a registered voter who doesn't have their photo ID but has two election officials at the precinct or in their early vote who personally identify the person, and all three individuals, that is the voter and the two elections officials sign a declaration of identity.

Then the voter is allowed to vote. And again, I go back to we want to try to eliminate fraud, but in doing that, it doesn't mean we should eliminate our common sense at the polls. If in fact everybody at that precinct knows this person, and for one reason or another as a human being they forgot their voter ID, they have Alzheimers, they have dementia, they have been sick, whatever it may be, it seems to me we don't want to continue to make it harder for someone we know absolutely certainly, 100% is the person they say they are. That's the reason Alabama passed this rule, and if it's good enough for Alabama, it ought to be good enough for North Carolina. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Samuelson. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I just remind the members that you have to take these qualifications in the larger context of the full initiative. I don't have the full initiative in Alabama to go through that, but we have bent over backwards in this bill to make sure people know they need their ID, that they have plenty of time to get their ID, and that we will frankly provide it to them free. So we would ask you not to support the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Further questions or comments on the amendment? Representative Torbett. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Question of the amendment sponsor please. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I yield. [SPEAKER CHANGES] You are fully aware that Alabama is in the SCC and not the ACC, is that correct, Representative? [SPEAKER CHANGES] That's not, the question is out of order. Further, further, further questions or comments on the amendment? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mister chair, to your left, please. Representative Wilkins, to your left. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Far left. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I hear you, Representative Wilkins. [SPEAKER CHANGES] No, don't look up there. But I appreciate that mister Chair. [SPEAKER CHANGES] That's better than me looking down. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you brother. [SPEAKER CHANGES] You are recognized. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you sir. To me this makes just a whole lot of sense and I probably should have commented a bit ago when we had the one poll worker. He used to come through, and yes, Representative Samuelson, I know folks do move around a bit, but I want to tell you out in the country they don't, and out in the country we know exactly who our poll workers are and they know exactly who we are, and this makes a lot of sense to me and I support it. And I thank you for looking upward, mister Chair. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Further comments, Representative Speciale. [SPEAKER CHANGES] In a perfect world, our judges would be, would be fair and impartial, but in the real world, a lot of them are partisan, so this is not a good idea. And I would recommend that we don't pass it. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mister Chair. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Wilkins, you are recognized. [SPEAKER CHANGES] May I speak a second time? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes sir. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Again, I remind you these are your friends and neighbors. There's nothing devious about these people. I've been a voter for a long, long time, and the poll workers I know, I know to be good reputable folks. They're very sincere about doing a job that's thankless and brings very little compensation. I do support this amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Further comments. Seeing none, all those in favor of the amendment, please signify by saying aye. All those opposed signify by saying no. The nos have it and the amendment is not agreed to. The next one is AST 34 version 2. Representative Harrison. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you mister Speaker. For those of you in election ??, I've run this amendment before. This simply allows for the use of an ID issued by a public high school in the state. I did a little research and it seems that several states that require photo ID allow for the use of a public high school ID. And I did a little bit more research and it seems like it will affect about 30,000 voters. These kids may not have drivers licenses or likely not passports, so I would appreciate your support. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Stam. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Would this, mister chairman, would this apply to the 43 accredited high schools thatJudge Manning found were committing academic genocide? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Is that a, is that question directed at someone or was it rhetorical? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Rhetorical. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Okay. Fine. Representative Steven, excuse me, Representative Samuelson. Further, any comment? [SPEAKER CHANGES] This did come up in election. It was new to us. We said at the time we didn't have serious problems with it. We've done some more looking. We have more concerns about it. So at this point we would urge you, we voted it down in election. We heard from some people as to why, and so we would urge you to vote against it.

[SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Chair? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Adams. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I’d like to ask Representative Samuelson a question. What are the concerns that you have about it? Can you share it with us? [SPEAKER CHANGES] That it gets harder to actually verify that with the high schools that they don’t actually do much verification for who’s who. It’s not something we have strong feelings about which is why on one committee we said we were O.K., but if you ask our opinion now, our opinion now is that we prefer not. [SPEAKER CHANGES] For the comment, Representative Harrison. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just wanted to point out that it looks like it would be covered anyway, because it’s any I.D. issued by the State. So, this is a government-issued I.D. So, I think it would be covered. It just would be nice to have it listed in a specifically enumerated list of valid I.D.s. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Pittman. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes, Mr. Chairman. I’d like to ask a question to either Ms. Samuelson or Representative Harrison or whoever. [SPEAKER CHANGES] You’ve got to designate who you want to ask the question. [SPEAKER CHANGES] O.K. I’ll ask Ruth. She probably knows. Do any of these ID’s, high school, college, whatever, have the student’s home address on them? Or some do, some don’t, or what? [SPEAKER CHANGES] We don’t know that and Representative Harrison was correct that it may actually be covered if it has a photo and a date of issuance or expiration on it, then it might actually sort of already be covered in the Bill which is why we were O.K. with it before. Remember, that this is not the card that they’re using to register. This is simply a card that says they are who they say they are. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Follow up. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Follow up. My comment would be, I wouldn’t personally want to accept any ID for someone coming to vote that does not have their home address on it. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Hager. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. A question for the Bill sponsors. Representative Samuelson would be fine. Representative Samuelson, the ALA’s [?] I guess, the high schools that will be issuing these high schools ID’s, would they be State under ALA[?] or would that be a County issue? [SPEAKER CHANGES] They are considered State. So, they issue under the State ID. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Further questions, comments. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Chairman. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Hall. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Call for a division, Mr. Chair. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Sufficient number have not arisen. We’ll have voice vote on this when all those in favor of the amendment please say Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman. Right in front of you. Representative Michaux. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Michaux. You’re. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes, I did have a statement to make. Representative Samuelson said that these photo ID’s were not used for registration, you know, but something to the effect. But they are used for voting. And that’s the clear difference between what this is. This is a matter of voting and not of registration. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The vote has been called for. All those in favor of the Harrison Amendment, please signify by saying Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] All those opposed, please signify by saying No. [SPEAKER CHANGES] No. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The Noes clearly have it. The Noes have it and the amendment is not agreed to. The next amendment is AST 39, version two. Representative Glazier is recognized. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. This is an amendment taken from the Voter ID Law, in truly our sister state, South Carolina. I apologize to Representative Torbett, I can’t seem to get out of the SEC, but. In this case what the provision in South Carolina does is state that any voter who has a reasonable impediment to obtaining the photo I.D., can vote a provisional ballot after showing their voter registration card that they received and signing a declaration stating why they were unable to get the photo I.D. The reasonable impediment has to be credible and the statute lists four possible reasons as determined by the County Board of Elections. So, they may say that it’s not credible, but if the voter can show something that is reasonably impaired their ability, created an obstacle to getting a photo I.D., such as a prolonged disability or illness, lack of transportation to get the photo I.D., lack of a birth certificate or of family responsibilities caring for a sick or infirm spouse or dependent. Those are the ones that are listed. And if the Board finds those to be true and to be credible, it would allow the voter to vote without the voter I.D. Now this is, as I said, straight out of South Carolina’s voter I.D. law. Again, we don’t want to continue to make it harder to vote for citizens who are trying to do it the right way, but are unable for some legitimate, credible reason

Unable to get that ID for this particular election, and I move adoption of the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Murray is recognized. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chairman. The reason why South Carolina adopted this is because they were overly aggressive in trying to implement their voter ID law and the department of justice forced them to include this provision. It's my understanding. And so I would ask members to oppose the amendment because we have a longer lead time with a much more robust process than South Carolina tried to implement in their voter ID law, to help get everyone a photo ID. And so I would ask members to oppose this, in my opinion this really guts the South Carolina photo ID and now South Carolina doesn't have a photo ID law because of provisions similar to this. And so I would ask members to oppose it. We have a much more robust process to help folks get the photo ID. We're already 97% there for voters that voted in 2012 and so we're going to take the next two years to help the other 3% get their ID's. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Further comments? On the amendment? Seeing none all those in favor of the amendment please signify by saying aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] All those opposed please signify by saying no. [SPEAKER CHANGES] No. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The no's have it and the amendment is not agreed to. The next amendment, I believe the last amendment that we have is AST36 version 2, representative Hall is recognized, Dwayne Hall. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chairman. This is an amendment that I think most of the members will recognize, it's one that I introduced last week at elections and it passed almost unanimously I believe but before it passed there was some small change, it changed the word shall to may. Shall provide a voters guide to may provide a voters guide. I think everyone here that understands the English language knows how drastically that change is, that's the equivalent of your parents or teacher saying that you may do your homework if you like to, or your employer saying you may come to work if you would like to. We spent a lot of time on this and I commend the leadership for the public hearings, letting people speak, but the reality is once election day comes more than 99% of the public won't have had the choice to attend these hearings and spend as much time as we have on this. A lot of the members I noticed when they introduced their bills they like to start - I'm not really sure why, maybe to try and slip it through without anyone noticing, saying this is just a simple bill. Well this, regardless of how you feel about this bill it's clearly not a simple bill, it's one that affects our most basic constitutional right, our right to vote. So I feel extremely strongly that the least we can do was make every effort to ensure that the public completely understands all these changes that we worked so hard on and I commend the amendment to you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Warren. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Members, changing the word may to shall directs the state board of elections to have to use all of these different media and we would prefer to let them decide where the money is best spent in reaching the electorate on this, they have the autonomy to use all of these things but we don't want to direct that they have to use all of them. Again it's a cost effective measure, as Representative Hall said we had a similar amendment from him last time and I strongly encourage you to vote no. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Avila. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chairman. Question of the amendment sponsor. I don't see any type of end date for this, is this a perpetual publication forever? Because it looks like we reach a point where it would be unnecessary but with this worded the way it is this goes on indefinitely. [SPEAKER CHANGES] representative Hall is recognized. [SPEAKER CHANGES] This is one that goes on, it's modeled after the Florida guide where they print one 30 days before the one stop begins and it's much in the same way we already provide a voters guide for judicial elections. I think there are an enormous amount of changes here and this is something that people should be aware of. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Ensco. [SPEAKER CHANGES] A question for the bill's sponsor. Could you let us know what are the current requirements for the state board of elections to notify voters about their registration? What is...

requirement. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Staff wish to answer that? Mr. Cowan. [SPEAKER CHANGES] There is a requirement in the statutes that at least 10 or 20 days before registration closes each county publishes a legal notice or whatever process legal notices are explaining the deadlines for registration and when the election is and what offices you are to be voted on. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Followup. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Followup. Sir I just want to clarify that that is the date of the election. Could you say those three things again? [SPEAKER CHANGES] A legal notice is currently have a number of requirements, I think the date of the election, the date that registration ends and a general description of which offices are to be voted on. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Just a comment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Final comment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The current requirements for the state board of elections or the local board of elections is very limited. I mean, a lot of people may not have any way of knowing this complicated requirements that are in this bill. So I urge people to support this amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Further comments. Questions on the amendment? Seeing none. All those in favor of the amendment please signify by saying aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] All those opposed signify by say no. [SPEAKER CHANGES] No. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The no's have it and the amendment is not agreed to. Those are all of the amendments which we have at the desk that haven't otherwise been disposed of or withdrawn. We would like to, I believe we have about five. Representative G. Graham is recognized to comment on the bill. We have about 3 or 4 minutes before we'll take a vote. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you very much sir Mr. Chair. I had a question, two questions really, I want to ask. Are we going to be adopting electronic voting machines is it going to be statewide. We will all have the same system and how do we propose to purchase or pay for the voting machine without the ?? unfunded mandate at the county level? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Murry is recognized. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Graham both of those subject matters are beyond the scope of this legislation. I expect you will see additional election reform efforts but both of those issues are beyond the scope of this legislation. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you. I'm advised that the clock I'm looking at up there is probably about 5 minutes slow so with that in mind we're approaching 9:50. The clerk will call the role on the adoption of the motion by Representative Murry which if you will restate it. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chair. I make a motion that we for a favorable report to the bill as amended and to authorize staff to make technical changes as appropriate and unfavorable to the original bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Murry I apologize. I don't believe you're a member of this committee. Are you? Are you a member of this committee too? How did you get on both. I assume your motion included that you want this adopted, the amendments adopted and rolled into a PCS unfavorable to the original. [SPEAKER CHANGES] That's correct Mr. chairman. [SPEAKER CHANGES] You have heard the motion. The clerk will call the role. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Adams. [SPEAKER CHANGES] No. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Arp. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Nay. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Avila. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Baskerville. J. Bell. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] L. Bell. Blackwell. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Boles. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Brandon. [SPEAKER CHANGES] No. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Brisson. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Brody. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] B. Brown. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] R. Brown [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Bryan. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Bumgardner. [SPEAKER CHANGES] ?? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Catlin. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Cleveland. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Conrad. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes [SPEAKER CHANGES] Cunningham. [SPEAKER CHANGES] No. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Daughtry. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Dixon. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Dobson. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Dockham. Earle. Elmore. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Faircloth. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Farmer-Butterfield. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Nay. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Fisher. [SPEAKER CHANGES] No. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Floyd. Ford. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Foushee. Fulghum. Gill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] ?? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Glazier. [SPEAKER CHANGES] No. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Goodman.

C. Graham, G. Graham, Hager, D. Hall, L. Hall [Speaker Changes] No. [Speaker Changes] Harrison, Hastings, Hollo, Horn, Howard, Hurley, Iler, Insko, [Speaker Changes] No. [Speaker Changes] Jackson, Jeter, [Lambeth], Langdon, Lucas, Malone, Martin, McElraft, McGrady, McNeill, Michaux, Millis, Mobely, [Speaker Changes] No. [Speaker Changes] Moore, Murry, Pierce, Pittman, Presnell, Queen, [Speaker Changes] No. [Speaker Changes] Ramsey, Richardson, Riddell, Ross, Saine, Samuelson, Shepard, Speciale, Stam, Starnes, Steinburg, Stevens, Szoka, Terry, Tolson, Torbett, Turner, West, Whitmire, Wilkins, Wray, Burr, Halloway, Johnson, [Speaker Changes] Aye. [Speaker Changes] Dollar, [Speaker Changes] Aye. [Speaker Changes] Members of the committee, the Ayes’ are 58, the Nays’ are 29 and the motion is agreed to. The committee is adjourned. Thank you.