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House | May 2, 2013 | Chamber | Finance

Full MP3 Audio File

If the place of chemistry second six if a man from two is some good pleased to welcome up as this morning to the monster PLO's intention mills thank you for being less questioned say that thanks to a set of staff Leon Smith to Seles john Brenneman might clamp of lessons undo a good business before the committee this morning as a presentation of hospital a seven C, and for that and that this is chairs happy to recognize Representative Brawley five Mecklenburg 2% hospital a 17 or you have four sure that the latest share of just a small local bill with no controversy that sense to me whether the bulk of the levees and jam chairs the massive litigation quiet in the room and for sure that he was chairman of the com port and this is of the bill to implement the strategic transportation investment program that was laid out by the governor is pressed off of last week it was heard on Tuesday and transportation committee and will be discussing today in the finance committee , indicated it does make some changes because we're changing a transportation plan that the fuel that of the business bad bank AG of the essentially the transportation plan under which were operating dates to 1989 than as an example I was referring in transportation in 1989 when of trouble nine communications program consisted of a man of quarters at a telephone calling card if I wanted to send someone text information I wrote about 1:00 AM and found a fax machine that could have a computer in my office that was connected only to the power of the lows, 40 MB card of 640 K of memory Randolph’s three of the cost about $4000 of that today and I've got something in my pocket with 1000 times the storage that cost me about $350 lacking send and receive text e-mail pictures access the Internet which nobody knew about 1989 the world has changed a lot but we're still doing leads the same way we did in 1989 with the advent of new analytical techniques for bank of the mathematical models of our roads react with the economy it's time that we take advantage of those changes in technology so with the Logos all have followed gentle prodding from there to be given overview of the background will have staff explain the bill that Congress some issues and will start taking questions that are trotting with the permission from this chairman of the someone is alleged nice please some surf you will just such a name for the long record in the four of concern Mr. Chairman of GM truck and Chief Operating Officer wolf: former transportation a less you'll probably already where north Carolina’s the four fastest growing buys stake in the nation are that creates is some challenges and transportation (SPEAKER CHANGES) not all that good growth will be uniformly spread across the state but how are we going that our stay together and be more competitive as we move four or the bigger challenges we have been providing this transportation services across the state is revenue of the three major revenue sources that we have today motor fuels taxes alone be of the season I will use tax of two of those have been rapidly declining, especially since the recession started one of those 60% of which comes from motor fuels tax we believe over the next 10 to 20 years will continue to decline from early to call Sunday at increase fuel efficient vehicles that we have so even though where the 10th, the highest five motor fuels tax break and this in the nation and the highest in the southeast ballet will not go to calls a steady increase revenue but calls consumption will continue to decline but we also believe that even with the population growth that will save (SPEAKER CHANGES) not all that will be good will see growth in all those revenues from early in the bee of the city's the calls were born along with driver's license from an younger people are not ??.....

Getting their driver's license and driving as quickly as they used to and then highway use tax which will grow slowly and it'll grow slowly based on the increase in sales of vehicles that we'll see as the economy improves. However, none of them will make up for the biggest problem we anticipate which is over the next 10 years, we'll see 1.3 million increase in population, that's 1.3 million people increased in North Carolina and over the same 10 year period, we'll see a net decrease in about 1.7 billion in transportation revenues due to those uncertainties with the consumption motor fuels. Then also, it doesn't include uncertainty in our federal revenues. Right now, federal revenues account for about 25% of our total revenue but out of that, a quarter of that is 75% of it is coming from federal motor fuel tax, 25% is coming from general fund, federal general fund and primarily through our increased debt to our nation. So we do believe that congress have to make tough decisions in the future about debt ceilings, transportation in that discussion will be at risk. So what do we do? That gap between population growth and revenue projections is what the secretary and the governor have referred to as the infrastructure gap that we see coming and there are two potential solutions to that infrastructure gap. One is what do we do with revenues but it can't be just increase the rates on the three primary means that we have today. And the second is, before we consider those other sources and various rates, how do we improve our efficiency to make sure that we are responsibly showing our citizens that we are doing every possible thing with every dollar that we have today to maximize it's productivity and our transportation economy and our proposal is what we call the Strategic mobility formula which is 40-40-20 which will be briefed in detail by the physical staff but it's really a two step process. One, this bill addresses how do we be more efficient with these resources and then the second step would be to work with the general assembly, the industry, the mayors and the cities and towns and the county commissioners across our state over the next 12 months and let's identify what do we do to fund transportation needs in the future differently than what we have done in the past because we know sustaining that will not sustain our needs. And so, based on our analysis, preliminary analysis, on what we have currently in our ten year plan versus what we think we can produce with this proposal, we run something called the ?? ?? which is the transportation and economy development and infrastructure system on all of these scenarios and we believe that in our ten year plan, it's producing about a 175 projects and a 174 thousand short and long term jobs, not changing our revenues but making our parts more efficient and with this proposal this will translate into 260 projects and about 240 thousand jobs across the state. So significant improvement primarily because it is focused on travel time savings across the state whether it is a travel time savings in an urban area that seen congestion or its travel time savings linking at local community to rural jobs center, the closest, how do we reduce that travel time to make sure more of our citizens has access to jobs and employments opportunity, and so with that Mr. Chairman, I'd turn it over to the physical resource staff. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. ??, you have the floor, sir. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chairman. I'd briefly go over the contents of the bill using the summary basis for the discussion as well as the one page diagram, it's actually two page diagram with an explanation of the new formula. part of the bill part 1 section 1 point 1 is the ?? of the new funding plan for transportation and investments and if you look over it, this will explain the new formula that is in acted by this section 1.1. if you look at the page 1 of that charge, this new formula will contain how we trust fund revenue and federal aid funds exempted from that

will be administrative costs, bond interest and bond redemption, and as well a some exemptions that are currently in law such as federal funds, Cemac funds, and competitive discretionary grants from federal government, and some other exemptions you'll see listed in 1.7. The rest of the funds will be subject to a 40-40-20 distribution, which you'll see on page 2 of the diagram, and be used for 3 different types of projects, strategic, state-wide mobility projects, regional impact projects, and division needs projects. 40% will be authorized for state-wide projects, 40% for regional projects, and 20% for division projects. And you can see on this list the types of projects that are authorized for each segment of the fund, subject to the formula. For instance, the state-wide interstates, national highway routes and so forth, regional and division will include everything that's in the state-wide, in addition to other types of projects you'll see listed. The scoring for each segment will be 100% on the state-wide level, 100% quantitative data on the regional level, 70% quantitative data and 30% local input, and at the division, 50% quantitative data, and 50% local input. And at the bottom, you'll also notice that there are some federal funds that would be subject to different prioritization under the division needs tier, based on the requirements of federal law. [SPEAKER CHANGES]At this time, we're going to ask staff, can you and so go over the fiscal impacts of the bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES]Thank you, Mr. Chair. My name is Amna Cameron, and I am staff at the Fiscal Research Division. If you look at your packet that includes the bill, that is a packet that includes the bill, the bill summary, and at the end, the fiscal note for this bill. I'm going to start of page 1 of the fiscal note, in which there is a table that shows the total impact to the state. There is no impact to the highway fund, or the highway trust fund as a result of this bill. There are changes to the aid to municipality program, and that is the impact you see in the local impact section on page 1. I'm going to move on and cover the 3 charts with you that are in the fiscal note, so if you turn to page 5 of the fiscal note, this chart indicates the impact to the highway fund. Sections 2.1 through 2.9 impact the secondary road program, and sections 3.1 and 3.2 impact the aid to municipalities. As you can see in chart 1, the aid to municipalities requires an appropriation of $53.4 in the 1st year, $48.1 in the 2nd year, and secondary roads will largely be minimized. So therefore, there is a balance of $8.4 million in the 1st year, $28 million in the 2nd year, and it'll be up to the appropriations process to determine how to expend those funds. Moving to the next chart, this is a chart specific to the aid to municipalities. This law changes it to restrict it only through allocations from the highway fund. Currently it's highway fund, and highway trust fund. And this tries to hold your aid to municipalities monies harmless at a 5 year level. There are indications, if you compare the '14 and '15 fiscal years, the first 2 fiscal years in the chart, those are based on the statutory adjustments, but the chart in the front of the bill, those 2 numbers are different because that's built on the base budget. And so it's this table 2, at which the analysis was performed, that's based on the statutory adjustments for this year, which eliminated about $6 million in those accounts due to the drop in motor fuel consumption.

Therefore, at the five-year point, the ?? Municipalities is held harmless and you can see that by $806,000 at the end of the year 5. In your packet of information is a city by city guide onto all of the impacts to every city in this state. We will now move on to the Highway Trust Fund in table 3. There is a statutory formula of 4.8 percent off the top of the Highway Trust Fund that goes to administration. This statutory formula is being repealed. It is up to the appropriation process to determine the new amount that will be appropriated directly for administration. It is assumed that amount will be lower. Moving on, items 2 through 7, the Intrastate Urban Loop, secondary roads, aging municipalities, mobility fund, and the Gap fund associated with Garden Parkway in ?? will shift into this new fund in line 8, the Strategic Transportation Infrastructure fund. Thank you, Sir. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Representative Brawley. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Chairman, we have a . . . [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes, excuse me just a minute, Representative Brawley. Rep. Lucas, ?? your purpose? [SPEAKER CHANGES] If we have questions about fiscal notes, should we ask them now or later? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Is that all right with you, Rep. Brawley? I think that might make sense to proceed that way. Please, state your inquiry. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you. It's a question for staff, for Miss Cameron. And that is what does it mean in the bill summary on the bottom of page 1 of your fiscal note when you write, I guess you write, that the plan phases out the Highway Fund secondary road construction? Can you give me an example of that? I'm trying to figure out how much this plan hurts Durham. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Sure, yes, Sir. Currently the secondary road construction program is performed by the Highway Fund and the Highway Trust Fund. Within the secondary road program, you have a secondary unpaved road paving program. In this bill the construction program which is an improvement will be limited to the Highway Trust Fund. There will be $50 million that is appropriated in year 1 to the normal construction program. The maintenance account also in section 2 is being broadened so while it used to refer to secondary road maintenance, it will now have a broader purpose to be secondary road maintenance and improvements to capture more of those expenses. But these two accounts, the Construction funds and the Highway fund and the Highway Trust Fund, serve the same purpose. So it was deemed that only one fund should have these responsibilities. The unpaved road paving will be limited to $12 million in the Highway fund and Gen. ?? could answer best of impacts. [SPEAKER CHANGES] If I may, a short follow-up? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes, Sir, you're recognized for follow-up. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I'm just trying to . . . I haven't been on transportation for a while. Remind me. As an example of a secondary road, would be what? [SPEAKER CHANGES] ?? Avenue. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Blust, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] My question has to do with the repeal of the statutory 4.8 percent for administration. What percent has historically been . . . Maybe not going back too far but say, the last 5 or 6 years. What percent has of the 4.8 percent set aside has actually been used for administration. Were we up against that cap or were there dollars that we could move. I think we had moved a few times, specifically made some transfers. I'm just wondering what the historical data is. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I will need to get more analysis. The transfers that have been made in the past have been the Highway fund administration but that is a maximum of 4.8 and I believe it's probably around 4.6, 4.7 as actual expenditures. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Brawley. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think one of the questions has already shown one big change between this plan and the way we've done things in the past. We currently

you have a series of silos and there's money in the silos and you get your money from the silo for the project in which it fits for example, Whiterail project in Charlotte is part of a transit silo that comes off the top but right now Mecklenburg County is the only county that gets that money if there's urban loop money and you want some of that you have to have an urban loop what we're talking about doing is going away from silos and into transportation funding and rather than you build what you can get funded you get funded and use it where you need it in your area. It's a real radical ideal you get money for transportation if you're a big city and you need commuter rail then you do commuter rail if you get money for transportation got lots of unpaved roads you pave your roads if you need bridges you build bridges but we're not going to tell you what you need on the three layers on this we have state projects that are designed for connectivity these are multi-region this isn't just big city one of the examples I think of would be projects southeast from Charlotte and into Anson County and directly east from Charlotte into Stanley County. Stanley and Anson Counties are losing population and have unemployment rates above twenty percent and part of the reason is there is not a good road to get from ?? into Charlotte to get a job on Sunday afternoon you can get to Wadesboro in forty-five minutes but on Monday morning at 8:00 it takes you an hour and a half. If you could get from Wadesboro to downtown Charlotte on a good road you could still live in Wadesboro and work in Charlotte or work at say the Harris Teeter distribution facility in Indian Trail in Union County near the Mecklenburg County line that kind of connectivity is not promoted the way we do business now. And that's one of the things we hope to do. The second thing all projects compete on their merit not on the political ability of the guys that like it. What's best for North Carolina and helps us grow and as far as ma'am Frank got some stuff he wants to add[SPEAKER CHANGES]Representative Iler co-chair of transportation[SPEAKER CHANGES]Representative Iler you have the floor sir[SPEAKER CHANGES]Thank you, Mr. Chairman I'm going be very brief because it's a lot of questions in peoples mind about the word formula is that what was the word used up to now? And so, any formula word is going to be is not going to be the word we use until the department begins to develop formulas in the near future and the joint legislative transportation oversight committee Representative Torbett and myself be chairing will yet to review the formulas in August, October, and January and the department has assured us we will be doing this as a team effort and we will be full informed as to what those are going to be but the ideal is that state-wide projects are going to be whatever they are so if you look at a chart which I think is out there saying well here's what this region had and now here's what this region has that's apples and oranges so the state-wide money isn't even shown in the second part of that chart is a break-out by region so not to worry we're going be the formula quote the bad word I didn't want to use at all those formulas within this will be develop and all I got to say when I finally put together the charts I was seeing into simple numbers I started figuring out that the connectivity piece economical development piece is going to equal jobs and that's going to be most of the state-wide projects as well as filtering down to the regional division and I'm not in love with it but I really got to like what the out-of-box thinking that's going on and I think it's going to be a tremendous asset to the state [SPEAKER CHANGES]do we get to review the formulas [SPEAKER CHANGES]thank you chairman Iler in the discussion on the state projects the state projects will be 100 percent data driven and there wont be a lot of local input things are going to be multi-county the regional projects which tend to be multi-county projects as well

Elway weighs 7% Monday to 40%?? (SPEAKER CHANGES) local input and the district projects which will be more closely guarded to local needs only 50% by the Kremlin and 50% local input that is one other separates them and then we'll be talking about later that will be on page 24 began last 25 PM through 42 NFS several comments of people are wondering why is the garden pkwy Lyondell wise to take fierce, likewise the bridge which but they must people realize to make a job but were leaving the final expressway and then leave Munro connector about as the race and that those two projects are remaining in statute is bob said the issue for them and the bond indenture documents left clicks of the specific pieces of general statutes from there he is some debate among bond counsel about the effect of us just repealing the whole trip turnpike authority employee goes out as well from a recent experience with a flying field in Mecklenburg County by Eduard one does not mess with the bond documents if you can avoid these two pieces because they have bond issues are remaining that is the only race and they're not being pulled out along with everything else is also does not mean that these projects are dead and means these projects will go into the mix with everything else and will compete upon the merits projects that would add the connectivity and will help the growth of the study will be funded and those that do not dwell on that day that a state Representative Tom would be interested in hearing this winter, presented this program at his press conference one of the things he talked about in the northeastern part of North Carolina is rather than try to find ways to tell you all in the metal the state we need to tell you in the Hampton roads for Kenya and led to the tenure with the killing for bell had been going to shore I started off with a good life for people to go and work then people living in for bill and rock and roll talk about their good schools and like axes and people began too much data for bill and Rockville and their population grew with a small businesses web to serve them in this small and medium corporate headquarters(SPEAKER CHANGES) we can move an ally for corporations in some cases are moving out of large buildings and Balanchine delta for bill for various reasons some mistakes a successful model cars, (SPEAKER CHANGES)we use it against well as acting rights away from the access to support projects that purely on the population in the area would not work as one place about the statewide program it's not population proven its benefit connectivity driven a good lead that goes through those elements a lawyer as a text everybody together visit brighter benefit them a better rather than the smaller the area is how you get from here they are a type camel ad in a variety of events and county water factory because it got it together studs, but that's the reason for this changes the bottle bill money issue of maris' been primarily by strong gains tax and gas tax would not addressing the part of funding to degradation were gonna have to look at how we raise money to the question the change in the unpaved roads projects in a way that's allocated now there are counties that are giving equal share on pay rent money and they all have any unpaid brothers nor counties that have hundreds of unpaved roads and be able to concentrate on what the media's is just one of the focuses of the building that employed as chairman of the broken questions-college Coach Richard workers , one last question, a lot less of it is one for right now because O'connor status report the family is simple enough to pose for two or affect the cattle blameless a clever stuff like this was announced as the example ask you which one is class cases of college athletics won the cup Phillies little book knowledge with a bag of Canadian couple a state holiday ears I could talk for state and one of the additive what they were tough calls brilliant because he safely disconnects a real short goal rails, we could like the global transplant in one for Encarta from all taxpayers; the something which could be a little economic outlook that we have to call we have to make a better route from Morgan city ??....

The test of an effect became a reality in London that project to get the death of improving 70 playing a more as a test in which most categories with the project fall into state does not take up the surgeon from the almost all of us are else in a specially 70 to 20 more as a beyond two of the state is calling the statewide to your phone call from foremost a one and regional competition and that's another factor is something statewide can also can compete in regional and competing local regional can also competing local the local only those levels so they can fund bound among the unfair to five additional inquiry shirts and things and then (SPEAKER CHANGES) we'll get to the treacherous aware of only one call mean they call a memo from representative, and we'll get to the issues we conclude this is a special Christmas cheer from liberal you're not talking about yesterday about to the psyche of transparency in importance of that for the four cells wonder if you call this a little bit of help all the data the scoring calculations and modeling processes are to be used to evaluate highways, $9.00 project, make that available , too: go for you about the effect is certain that the depreciation conversation last like a fake right now we can tell you what tamales orchestra have been developed when they are presented to the prom transportation oversight committee of all those documents will be in the public record event at home also one of the things that go back to what or how we do this than it was same like one project or finally decided their scoring sheet should be made public by apple point now we do have taken to get all the deliberations and on that might be cumbersome born right is actually scheduled input and two more priority system there should be some way for the public know how that decision was my fact that this torture purpose much question that (SPEAKER CHANGES) I'm surprised home page 28 and billers talk about via toll roads there and not finished 56787, two sculpin up from the products M and say this line with your work previously occupied country with the construction operation and maintenance staff reconstruction and rehabilitation and replacement for baseball were authorizes them to take an existing road and turn in the follower of the great no enough that no harm in like to address the concert: control them, but it allows us to do specifically of offering the language is added to the calls under a specific projects like 41 no Mitchell and some in the lane that's a toll way with dual purpose Lanes next to them when they have to do some mall repair work almost sure to the slates not told them to do the repair work to make sure that demand is slowing the scope of Paul appropriately 5:00 PM and so that would allow us to do some level all live in proving the interchanges that trying to that allowing 57 losses to do some of lead to buy the stock rose to tablets authorizing us to expand the toll revenues to do that were necessary to make it five to a little bit too that are also the plan is something most projects that become public private partnership managed lane projects rather than waiting for full funding its anticipated that the hot Lanes will generate some revenue back and two B a K a new chat with the york's Penn that all road improvements for my own control project rather than bringing them back to roll in the plot of the year so that those localities that excel good negatives some told projects also will reap some benefit by having money available for rights bill, and that burial to follow project that began two goals of the holiest a share could home to propound an inquiry two and spoke about two of the planned 8% in two of the fallen short legislative oversight L and many are transferred to a two law, the bill was able to teach with five and section 6.1 don't return to its final page 30 ??........

Wait a minute...Wait a minute...Am I looking at...6.1...Yeah! Department of Transportation 6.1 beginning on line 42 The Department of Transportation shall report to the joint legislative Transportation Oversight Committe and the Fiscal Resource Decision no later than August 15, 2013 on the Department's recommended formulas that will be used in the prioritization process to rank highway and non-highway projects. And then there are additional reporting dates of: October 23, 2013, final report on highway and inter-mobile by January 1st, 2014. And then there will be additional reports required by Section 2 and those will all be by the General Assembly. [SPEAKER CHANGES] If the Chair could propose one more, please, starting with line 44, it appears there's a change dealing with the Turnpike Authority reporting to ?? instead of the General Assembly, and I was wondering if you could speak to that. Or, to be more specific, how that would work. And, the Chair does not mean to put you on the spot, I was just very curious about that change. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yeah, I'm going to ask if anyone in Staff can address it, because I can't. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The Chair would be glad to even hold that until...I'm sorry...Mr. ?? You'd like to speak to that? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chairman. This references projects in addition to the listed projects that the Turnpike Authority could undertake...Before they did that, they would have to consult with ?? according to this provision on page 24. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Alright, Representative Collins please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] One question, please. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman is recognized. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I noticed that under the Regional Impact part, it says that the funds are going to be allocated by population distribution regions, and I think that from what you told me this is the only one of the three categories that this is true for because you said the statewide, that was not true for...Is that correct? [SPEAKER CHANGES] The Statewide...[SPEAKER CHANGES] I'm on page 4, line 12, actually line 14 is where the word 'population' occurs. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The Statewide is not population dependent, it's completely data-driven. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I have a follow-up...[SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes, sir, you're recognized. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I think the way I'm reading this, that if this particular division has 27% and this division has 12% of the population, this division is going to get 27% of the money, and this division is going to get 12% of the money in this category, is that correct? [SPEAKER CHANGES] If the Chair will indulge me, Mr. Trogman would like to answer [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes, sir, Jim Trogman, it's the region population, not the division, so to that region would be the region's share of the statewide population. The division allocation is equal share. [SPEAKER CHANGES] One final followup. I like to vacation in Representative Tyne's district in the Wintertime, when there's nobody there, when I can drive from Rocky Mount to Nag's Head in about two hours if I speed a little bit, probably shouldn't say that with the Transportation people here, but anyway, my family likes to go in the Summertime, I made the mistake last year of going the wrong way went up the Virginia way and came up from Elizabeth City, instead of going the way I normally do and it took two hours to get from Grandy on the other side of the sound there to Nag's Head. What about areas like this that are low in population, if we're going by their permanent population, but have a huge upsurge in their population during part of the year? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Some of that will be answered by the formulas, but I would also suggest, that what we're talking about is huge tourist traffic, because that's across the whole state, and that's a big economic issue, and that's going to fall under the state plan, anyway. Because you're going to be coming in on US Highways and Interstates. Because that's also while the road will accommodate a lot of beach traffic, there's a lot of other things that will go on it. One of the things we realize, even though we may hate it, there's an awful lot of big trucks that are on those roads, and every one of them is full of jobs. [SPEAKER CHANGES] If I may add to that, you may notice the 60% is not based on population...

This assumes that cherry Mrs. Year and the third one is economic plan to miss a thing that addresses tourism as somehow because my real some of them are represented dollars realize that connections to 22 the Crystal Coast of North Carolina the grandstand strands so we can do all summer that businesses also wants a 1. , Weapons and read through sentence if your calls from all directions call such a staff would speak (SPEAKER CHANGES) your concern M5 stayed behind to back up a little been prioritization criteria is being said ITT in a workgroup bank and could see our kids MPS was based on his four group's recommendation by the Tories and can call it is largely of reaching on a ship and therefore UC and reseller SMI a NXS and LEITIA banks S and LDSN 2 VI2 jobs they all 722 or in some representative, is recognized some fourth in the moment, but commanders have copies to make amends for just a moment is some copies of any of them and are distributed will miss two of the set that we have received at least the mail yesterday several times to that, if that's the message and, like to apologize again decided on the floor yesterday for the exuberance of some other folks and in my district and then those that are willing to pay for the tolls that on both accounts thank you to make Mr. At this point the members have copies of the amendment two is going to recognize that saved five to explain his surname of the official served as chairman, I appreciate the bill's sponsors sensitivity two of these two: the northeast region but then the home also the computing flawed policy concerns over Irvine role: the things that this bill does is say(SPEAKER CHANGES) remove certain projects from the bypass to compete in the incompletion and puts them into an uncertain formula that were not going to actually know what exactly buffalo looks like until report comes back from department of fish and bonds among them would do is restore the tolling projects of the garden pkwy the cape fear parkway and the crew to bridge the towing a story in the past five fell to 540 moved lower portion of the very quickly on the end that was worthy and intended home of reasons to create a telling a story was to be able to get projects moving become very fast and then we have two projects and lease would be likely to a French hands are also the garden pkwy we spend $50,000,000 on these to get them to the permitting process we have records of decisions saw on both of those and are both within six months of this sort bond sale again we're asking 21 to these projects and let the finish line and leave them up to a process that we will find out until after the vote which is reminiscent of folk perhaps what we have criticized the Federal government dolls along with some of their plans here are the last couple of years, massively complete this investment that affects two areas with very high unemployment, one that has fed needs access to existing assets in the urban area and one that would unlock rural potential five and send this to them and would do to five with complete the seventh anchor much as chairman bill sponsored but then, move for adoption centers of power from lettuce and bay Chan and on the city at the console tension with the bill's sponsor and also will based on prior to live sevenths to Cherish received a request from weapons from their two while, seeded number of home finance home could committee is saying that are the Halsey said to speak almost ??.....

and the Chair is going to extend him that chance Representative Steinburg did you want to speak on this issue[SPEAKER CHANGES]yes Mr. Chairman thank you with regard to the ?? bridge I would like point out to a couple of things that as to why this particular project is essential we are those of us in the Northeast in the fourth poorest congressional district in the country, fourth poorest in the country the tidewater area, of Norfolk and Hampton roads is one of the fastest growing and most prosperous regions of the country so there is a ?? economy between these two particular items what we are trying to do is establish a foreign trade zone using the port of Norfolk is one of the catalyst to try and create a new gateway into North Carolina one which will bring a great deal of prosperity to that area that has been without prosperity for about thirty plus years so we can really change the dynamics one of the criteria in establishing this foreign trade zone is to smooth forward traffic there are two things that folks look at they want areas that are using this foreign trade zone in Norfolk to be within sixty miles or ninety minutes and that's twelve months a year, so the traffic can flow from points of assembly back and forth the points of assembly being in North Carolina back and forth to the port of Norfolk so it is for four or five months a year that would be impossible with the amount of traffic that particular region has as result of not being an alternative road to the outer backs not to mention the health and safety issue of evacuation and so on and so forth so from new economic standpoint this bridge is critical for us to complete the proposed changes to create a foreign trade zone in Northeastern North Carolina will truly bring prosperity to a region long overdue and that will change the dynamics for decades to come so I just appreciate Mr. Chairman for allowing me to make those comments that relates to that particular project in the future of Northeastern North Carolina indeed Eastern North Carolina thank you[SPEAKER CHANGES]Thank you, and now interested ?? is going to ask Representative ?? Hoyt to speak to this but Representative Bumgardner also has asked to speak on this the Chair is going to extend him the chance to that you have the floor sir[SPEAKER CHANGES]Thank you Mr. Chairman yes sir, one thing that Representative Tine said was that this project was within six months of the beginning that's not true this project the Garden Parkway is what I'm speaking of I've already introduced two bills to get rid of the Garden Parkway the voters of Gaston County have been looking for some closure on this project for a long time it was a centerpiece of the campaign in the last election several elections have come and gone and every election the voters of Gaston County said they're not interested in this project and this project is along way from it's not approved it's not anything right now it's just a piece of paper there has been some money spent and that needs to stop because we're wasting money here I purposely didn't mention the ?? bridge and the Wilmington Skyway and my bills that I introduced to get rid of the Garden Parkway because those are not my projects their not my district you know that's not my battle to fight I'm here to fight for the district I represent and that's the support I'm interested in doing thank you.[SPEAKER CHANGES]Thank you, this time we're going recognize the bill ?? to speak to the amendment sent forth by Representative Tine[SPEAKER CHANGES]thank you Mr. Chairman probably in someway I got to thank you, you did me a favor. First I want to challenge the premise of your statement that without this being a legislative it wouldn't be built now there's been a long time in North Carolina that would've been a true statement if you didn't legislate it it wouldn't be built because it wouldn't been scored based on objective criteria then as you and Representative Steinburg have laid out all the reasons

why the project is necessary and should be built, you're making the case for why we need this new transportation approach. That the fourth poorest Congressional district in the nation with a small population should be able to qualify for this road based on economic reasons that you name and not just on how much political power you can pull together in the General Assembly. Because the road benefits the whole state based on all the information that you have put out. So I would say you've given me the best argument for passing the plan, but let's don't hobble the plan to begin with by saying well, we're gonna do the new plan, but everybody that's got a project is going to do the new plan, but we're still going to legislate my project. Because if we do that, we're kind of wasting our time. We've either got to fix it or not fix it, but we can't half fix it. So I would ask that you not approve the amendment, but let the projects go forward, including, well, all of them, and whatever new ones we add. Let's spend the money the best way we can, and I'm certainly confident that a lot of the projects that people are afraid of losing, they will get even stronger support because now it's not just how well they can convince us. They've got objective data to support their project, and that's what drives the state money and the big projects like ?. [SPEAKER CHANGES] On the time amendment, Rep. Moore, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To ask the bill sponsor a question. [SPEAKER CHANGES] He yields. The gentleman may -- [SPEAKER CHANGES] Rep. Brawley, just concentrating more so on the Garden Parkway, as you know, we have, we're developing a new inter-modal yard near the airport. What would be the, if this project the Garden Parkway, how wold that enhance, or if the project was not put forth, how would that impact not only Gaston county but the region as far as economic and potential for jobs and maximizing our new inter-modal yard out by the airport by Charlotte-Douglas? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Rather than address the specific project of the Garden Parkway, what I would say is that another crossing of the Catawba river in that area is needed. It might be that one. It might another. That decision could still be open. I don't believe that we live and die on the Garden Parkway project, but there does need to be another crossing. Having done real estate in Gaston county for a number of years with my office in Mount Holly, access to southern Gaston county's hard, and that in many cases you either cross on I-85. There's a small bridge on 29, or else you go all the way down into South Carolina and cross Highway 49 on Buster? Bridge. But as to the actual details on the Garden Parkway, I'm not in the weeds that deep. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Rep. Brawley, Iredell, on the time of the amendment, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To speak on the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman may speak on the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and gentleman, it's my understanding these project are not eliminated. They are now a part of the formula. And while I would like to put bills in to tell you how much to spend in Iredell county and how much is coming to us. I think we're all much better served, if we like the formula, go ahead and support the formula. Leave it up to the Dept. of Transportation. Let them make the decisions as we have set out here. They have responsibility for the statewide decisions. Each district has its own right to argue their position, but we leave it up to them, and I think our state will best be served if we defeat this amendment and support the bill as is. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Rep. Tine, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To respond to some of the comments that were made in regards to the -- [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman is recognized to speak a second time on the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [SPEAKER CHANGES] In regards to the six-month statement that I made, my understanding is that if litigation from certain interests, that we would be there as far as the DOT process is concerned. I apologize if I was inaccurate in the manner in which I stated that. The other issue is, again, and we've sort of mentioned it several, is that we don't know what that formula is going to look like until after we've voted for the bill. If the formula was in here and I could look at it and say okay, I understand how these are going to be scored, and we'll meet the payoff of [CUTS OFF]

…the investment that we’ve been able to put forth at this point. Then I would be making a different consideration in my vote. So again without that information to be able to exactly say how these are going to go, that’s why I’m bringing forth the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you. Representative Starnes, on the tine amendment please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I’m going to ask Mr.Trogden if he would offer an opinion on the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Trogden. Representative Starnes has posed an inquiry and I think perhaps for Mr. Trogden’s peace of mind maybe you should state the inquiry again. Representative Starnes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Trogden. It looks like you have a plan where projects are rated based on the need as compared to other projects within the state or region or localities. It seems like a good idea because you’re trying to take the politics out of it where road projects are assessed and funded on their merit as opposed to the political pressure so does this begin an unraveling of what you’re trying to do? [SPEAKER CHANGES] From the department standpoint, to do the best I can to stay out of the middle of a circular firing squad, I would say that we do support the broad concept to get as many projects out of statute as we possibly can, understanding there’s a transition that we’re going through with the ones that are already built on bonds but we have constantly supported that position. It’s better to get them out and it’s not because we feel like we’re smarter than anyone else in determining the merits of the project but we do believe with the system we’re proposing is that locals will determine their priorities that will build from that local system then the region will determine its priorities and when the projects do well there, they have support across the state. It’s those decisions that are driving it. Why we’ve gotten to this point is because we’ve had limited resources and not the flexibility to do that, people have had to come to the general assembly because they’re frustrated at the inability to get projects scheduled and we’re trying to avoid that frustration and build that grass roots support all across the state. I hope that answers your question. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Wells on the tine amendment, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Gentleman may speak on the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I may be overly sensitive but when the bill’s sponsor starts off talking about the counties east of Charlotte and their connectivity, I would point out that Anson and Stanley have suffered some economic setbacks but there is a county northwest of Charlotte that has suffered more setbacks than both of those counties combined. Catawba County’s link to Charlotte is Highway 16, which turns into a two lane shortly after you cross the Catawba County line and remains don’t have a direct line to Charlotte and one possible connector to the Charlotte area from Catawba County has ended up in this bill with a black line through it. Now I support the formula in general and I apologize for being a little suspect of DOT but I’m in not just the NSA not just the metro area but the City of Hickory is split into three DOT divisions. A municipality is in three different DOT divisions. I would like to see this language in the bill. I support this amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Chairman would the gentlemen yield for question? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Wells will you yield? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Bell, he does. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The direct connection you were referring to that’s been lined out. Would you tell me which one that is? [SPEAKER CHANGES] The Garden Parkway. Because the difficulty is on 16, we’re actually going a roundabout way through Gaston County to get to Charlotte. That’s the quicker way to get to Charlotte from my community. [SPEAKER CHANGES] 321 to 85, yeah. That’s the way I take. [SPEAKER CHANGES] So 321 to 85 and the Garden Parkway would eliminate some of the congestion on 85 that is creating a problem. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative do you wish to speak a second time on the tine of… [SPEAKER CHANGES] No it’s a conversation I need to have some… [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative …

[Speaker Changes] Iler on the time of amendment. [Speaker Changes] Just a foot note on the Cape Fear skyway. I believe we have a couple of Wilmington Representatives here. Representative hamilton and Davis and is Catilin in the room? I’m not sure. But anyway, the cape fear skyway was a very expensive project concept and is basically being rethought by the MPO for much less expensive. It was almost 2 billion dollars in the initial concept and its being rethought to try to come up with a lot less expensive alternative to be recommended. Hopefully through the new formula we’ll indicate, its very necessary to have a new bridge across cape fear river, but that was just too expensive. We’re not considered about that coming out at all. [Speaker Changes] Further discussion or debate on the Time amendment? Seeing none. The amendment sponsor has called for the ayes and nos. I’m sorry. [Speaker Changes] Just division. [Speaker Changes] Okay, the chair stands corrected. Those who favor the amendment, sent forward by Representative Time, please signify by raising your right hand and holding your hand until we can get a count. Please put your hands down. Those who oppose the amendment sent forward by Representative Time, please raise your hand. Please put your hands down. By a vote of 17 in the affirmative and 11 in the negative, the amendment is adopted. Further discussion or debate? If not, Representative Brawley you are recognized for a motion. [Speaker Changes] Mr. Chairmen, I move that House Bill 817 as amended be rolled into a new committee substitute, given a favorable report, and referred to the committee on appropriations. [Speaker Changes] You’ve heard the motion from Representative Brawley that house bill 817 as amended be rolled into a new committee substitute and that that committee substitute be given a favorable report and re-referred to the committee on appropriations. Further discussion, or debate on the motion from Representative Brawley. Seeing none. Those who favor the motion will signify by saying aye. Those who oppose will signify by saying no. In the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it and the decision carries. There being no further business, this committee stands adjourned.