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House | February 4, 2013 | Chamber | Session

Full MP3 Audio File

The House will come to order, members will take their seats, visitors will retire from the chamber, the Sergeant-at-arms will close the doors. Members and visitors will please silence all cellular phones. The prayer today will be offered by Eagle Scout and Representative Bert Jones. [SPEAKER CHANGES] We join in prayer. Our Father and our God, we gather again in this house of the people, as those that have been entrusted with great responsibility. We ask that you would grant us much godly wisdom. That we would govern rightly in your sight, according to your word. And we know from your word that you are able to do exceedingly, abundantly above all that we ask or think. Father we pray that your spirit will be the guiding influence that will govern the tone and the actions of this general assembly. Likewise, we pray for our governor, and all the Executive Branch of our government, and also we pray for our Supreme Court, and all the Judicial Branch. We remember those that came before us. We honor the good, and we repent of the evil. We ask your forgiveness, and we pray that you will look upon our state with favor. We would echo the words that begin our state constitution. As we humble ourselves and honor you, almighty God, the sovereign ruler of nations. Thankful to you for the existence of our liberties, and dependent upon you for the continuance of those liberties. We acknowledge that our rights do not come from governments of men or of laws, but that our rights come from you, almighty God. Father, this evening, we celebrate the one-hundred-three-year history of the Boy Scouts of America. We celebrate the timeless godly values that are expressed in the twelve points of the Scout Law that we will discuss. We pray that you will help us, as servant leaders, to demonstrate these in our own lives. The scout promise begins: On my honor, I will do my best to do my duty to God. May that promise be our prayer as well. With the knowledge that other will offer their prayers as they choose, I offer my prayer in the name of your son, the lord Jesus Christ. Amen. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Amen. Thank you Representative Jones. At this time members and visitors in the gallery will please remain standing for the presentation of the colors. The honor guard includes scouts from across North Carolina representing Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Explorers, Venture crews, and Sea Scouts. Pledge of Allegiance, tonight, will be led by Eagle Scout and Representative John Bell. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Please join me in the Pledge of Allegiance. Scout Salute. I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. [SPEAKER CHANGES] We thank the color guard for their service this evening. Thank you. At this time Representative Moore is recognized. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Speaker, the journal for Thursday, January thirty-first 2013

Has been examined and found to be correct. I move it's approval as written. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Representative Moore moves that the journal for January 31st be approved as written. Those in favor will say aye, those opposed will say no. The ayes have it and the journal is approved as written. Petitions, memorials and papers addressed to the General Assembly or the House? The introduction of the nurse of the day today: We have a nurse from Hickory, Cheryl Logan, who has joined us today. Thank you Miss Logan for your service to the House. Introduction of bills and resolutions the clerk will read. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Representative Steven and Starnes, House Bill 30 Repeal Combined Motor Vehicle Registration Tax System. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Transportation. If favorable, Finance. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Representative Hurley, Brandon, McNeill and Baskerville, House Bill 31 Amend Habitual Driving While Impaired. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Judiciary Subcommittee B. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Representative Hurley and Turner, House Bill 32 Increase Year's Allowance. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Judiciary Subcommittee B. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Representative Whitmire, Hager, T. Moore and Hastings, House Bill 33 Cleveland/Polk/Rutherford Trapping Repeal. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Government [CHANGE SPEAKER] Representative R. Brown and Moffitt, House Bill 34 Clarify Indecent Exposure Law. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Judiciary Subcommittee C [CHANGE SPEAKER] Representative R. Brown and Cleveland, House Bill 35 Repeal State Capital Facilities Finance Act. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Finance [CHANGE SPEAKER] Representative R. Brown and Dockham, House Joint Resolution 36 Honor Former Member Joe Hege. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Rules, Calendar and Operations of the House. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Representative T. Moore and Hastings, House Bill 37 Cleveland County Property Transfer. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Government. If favorable, Finance. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Representative Floyd and Lucas, House Bill 38 Repeal Second Primaries. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Rules, Calendar and Operations of the House. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Representative Jackson, House Bill 39 Western Crime Lab Funds. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Appropriations [CHANGE SPEAKER] Representative Jackson, House Bill 40 Amend Habitual Driving While Impaired. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Judiciary Subcommittee A [CHANGE SPEAKER] Representative Jackson, House Bill 41 .00 Alcohol Restriction All Driving While Impaired. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Judiciary Subcommittee A [CHANGE SPEAKER] Representative Jackson, House Bill 42 New Judge Additional District Attorney Wake County. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Rules, Calendar and Operations of the House. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Representative Jackson, House Bill 43 Ignition Interlock All Driving While Impaired. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Judiciary A. It's time we will suspend Rule 12d without objection. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Representative Horn, Johnson, Saine and Tolson, House Bill 44 Transition to Digital Learning in School. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Education [CHANGE SPEAKER] Representative Horn, Johnson, Saine and Tolson, House Bill 45 Internet Access for Public Schools. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Education. If favorable, Appropriations Subcommittee on Education. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Representative Ray, House Joint Resolution 46 Honor Former Member Edward (Ed) Walter Jones. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Rules, Calendar and Operations of the House. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Representative Ray House Resolution 47 Honor Conway's 100th Anniversary. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Rules, Calendar and Operations of the House. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Representative Shepard, House Bill 48 Operations of Mopeds. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Transportation [CHANGE SPEAKER] Representative Shepard, House Bill 49 Firearm in Locked Motor Vehicle Parking Lot. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Rules, Calendar and Operations of the House. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Representative Holloway, Stevens and Elmore, House Resolution 50 Honor Former Member Don W. West. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Rules, Calendar and Operations of the House. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Representative Holloway, Blackwell, Blust and Cotham, House Bill 51 Increase Access to Career Technical Education. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Education. If favorable, Appropriations Subcommittee on Education. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Representative Jones, Ford, S. Ross and Szoka, Honor Boy Scouts of America, House Resolution 52. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Calendar, pursuant 32a. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Representative Tillis, Moffitt and Murry, House Bill 53 NC Right to Work/Secret Ballot Amendments. [CHANGE SPEAKER] Rules

...calendar and operations of the House. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative T. Moore, House Resolution 54 2013 Permanent House Rules. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Rules calendar and operations of the House. This evening we have a special presentation by Supreme Court justice and eagle scout Paul Newby, who will be making a report to the state on behalf of the Boy Scouts of America. Justice Newby will be escorted into the chamber by eagle scouts. If the following members will return to the rear of the chamber to escort Justice Newby in: Representative John Bell, Representative Nelson Dollar, Representative Carl Ford, Representative Frank Iler, Representative Burt Jones, Representative Tim Moffitt, Representative Stephen Ross, Representative John Szoka, Representative Ken Waddell, and Representative Andy Wells. If any other member is an eagle scout, please join the escort committee as well. The committee will escort Justice Newby into the chamber, and he will be seated with us as we move into the calendar. [CLAPPING] Earlier we placed House Resolution 52 on today's calendar. The Clerk will read. [SPEAKER CHANGES] [AUDIO BREAKS] House Resolution honoring the Boy Scouts of America the House resolves. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The Clerk will read the resolution in its entirety. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Whereas experiencing a kind gesture from an unknown boy scout during a trip to England, Chicago publisher William D. Boyce decided to establish a scouting organization in the United States. Whereas the [AUDIO BREAKS] Boy Scouts of America was incorporated on February the 8th in 1910 in Washington, D.C. and whereas the Boy Scouts of America was established to provide an educational program for boys and young adults to build character, to train in the responsibilities of participating citizenship, and to develop personal fitness, and whereas by 1912 boy scouts were enrolled in every state in the nation, and whereas Congress granted the Boy Scouts of America a federal charter on June 15th, 1916, and whereas since its founding the Boy Scouts of America has provided more than 110 million youths with the support, friendship, and mentoring necessary to live a happy and fulfilling life, and whereas currently almost 120,000 North Carolinians participate in the scouting program, and whereas local boy scout youths encourage each boy scout to perform community service each year, and whereas in 2012, scouts in North Carolina performed more than 500,000 hours of community service representing millions of dollars in time, talent, and materials to improve the state's parks, schools, retirement centers, and other public areas, and whereas Wayne Brock, an eagle scout from Deep Run, North Carolina has recently been selected as a chief scout executive of the Boy Scouts of America, now therefore be it resolved by the House of Representatives: Section One, the House of Representatives honors the memory of William D. Boyce for his role in founding the Boy Scouts of America and expresses its appreciation to the members of the Boy Scouts of America for their commitment to improving the lives of the citizens of this state. Section Two, the principal Clerk shall transmit a certified copy of this resolution to the National Council of Boy Scouts of America. Section Three, this resolution is effective upon adoption. [AUDIO ENDS]

Representative Jones is recognized to explain the resolution. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr.Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen, the House it is an honor and privilege for me to stand here this evening and just speak a good word on behalf of the Boys Scouts of America and what it means to me I'm. First of all I would just like to ask my Eagle Scout Colleagues, the Speaker now stand earlier as anacor ?? but the representatives Bill, Dollar, Ford, Ouiler, Mophin, Steve Ross, Soker, Wadue and Wales would you stand. I would also like to recognize there is that are known to be parents and even the grant parent enable to scale representative Sueson Fisher, representative Ruth Samuelson and representatives Mophin and Wales are the parents of Eagle Scouts as well as being an Eagle Scout and representative either as even the parent and grand parent of Eagle Scouts. I would just like to acknowledge my colleagues and thank you for being part of Scouting and you may be seated. Especially I wanted to introduce the parents, I think anybody who has ever been involved in such an endeavor would say that it would have been very very difficult to do without the support of our parents. People get involved with Scouting, I know many reasons. There are many things that boys are taught through the scouting, you learn a lot about the outdoors, you learn about the tying knots. They learn about the citizenship, they are the mere badges that have to do with the citizenship, in the community and in the nation and in the World and so many things you can learn about very first day, many practical things. Learn CPR for the first time as, as a Boys Scout. Representative Corney I know you can particularly appreciate that. The Scouting has been wonderful endeavor and I just wanna say for all the things that you have learned in Scouts, the most important, the most important are those timeless values that are taught to boys and they are embodied largely in the 12 points of the Scout Law. I would just like to remind you what they are. Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent. I saw some of my colleagues say those along with me. Scout are taught to be prepared to do a good turn daily. That's the scout motto in the scout slogan. Scouts are taught to be physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight. Teaching boys these qualities, I would submit to you, you have to build men, men that would be better husbands, better fathers, better soldiers, better citizens, better people. So I would submit to you that we have all benefited from those values that have been taught to you countless thousands of boys in this State over the last 103 years. With that in mind Mr. Speaker, I commend the resolution. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Further discussion, further debate, hearing none, the question for the house is the adoption of house resolution 52. All in favour will vote AYE,all who opposed will vote NO. The clerk will open the vote. Clerk will lock the machine and record the vote. 116 having voted in the affirmative and zero in the negative. The resolution is adopted and ordered permit. Wue?? will recognize our justice Nuvie's time would like to recognize a few folks in the gallery. We have with us Secretary, Bill Dotrich who is an Eagle Scout and a recipient of the CU Silver Wever, presently serves on regional Board of the Boys Scouts of America. Thank you for being with us today, Mr. Secretary.

[APPLAUSE] At this time we welcome Justice Nouvie to the well of the house for the report to the state on behalf of the Boy Scouts of America. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and Gentlemen, from the mountains to the city, Boy Scouting in North Carolina is flourishing. Almost a hundred and twenty thousand North Carolinians are involved in the eleven councils of our state. Equipping young men and women to do their duty to God and country. These 87,000 scouts and 33,000 young adult volunteers provide more than one half million hours of community service each year benefiting the people of our state. On your desk you will find a copy of scouting’s 2013 report to the state and we commend it to you for your consideration. Scouting develops leadership and character, which is illustrated by the leaders of our state who as youth attained the rank of Eagle Scout. For example, as you’ve heard 10 members of this chamber as well as 5 Senators are Eagle Scouts. Likewise Secretary of Administration Bill Daltridge was an Eagle Scout. As well as the new National Chief Scout Executive Wayne Brock, who is from Deepron in Lenore County. While the traditional scouting programs flourish, so do the innovative ones. One such program is the Rocky Mount Police Department Explorer Post 774. Will the explorers and adult leaders of post 774 please stand? They’re here. Since 1977 this post has nurtured and guided socially disadvantaged young men and women in the community, introducing them to possible careers in law enforcement. The program has produced several law enforcement leaders, including U.S. Marshall Scott Parker and Captain Martin McCoy of the Rocky Mount Police Department. Both of these men credit the Explorer Post for their direction and their successful careers. Thank you, Post 774. You may be seated. Another [APPLAUSE] Another unique program is High Point Troop and Venture Crew 7 which was developed to help Hispanic young people be comfortable with their own heritage and American Scouting ideals. Will the members and leaders of Troop and Venture Crew 7 please stand? Over on this side. [APPLAUSE] This 100% Latino troop and crew have over 30 young men and women learning skills which enable them to help their community. The scouts serve their community by volunteering as translators during times of emergencies. Collecting funds and goods for disaster relief and identifying and meeting other community needs. These scouts discovering the joy of serving others. Thank you Troop and Crew 7 for being with us. You may be seated. Now some of you may be thinking that scouting can’t be all that challenging. After all, you’ve seen which of your colleagues are eagles. But, if you think that you ought to watch the new reality tv show debuting on the National Geographic Channel on March the 4th, Are you Tougher than a Boy Scout? As part of a nationwide talent hunt, 11 scouts were selected, but only 1 was chosen from Southeastern United States. And that scout is with us tonight. Will Big South Flemming. Will would you please stand to be recognized? [APPLAUSE] Will is a third generation Eagle Scout from here in Raleigh. A senior at Braughton High School who serves his local boy scout 388 as an assistant scoutmaster. An avid skeet shooter, Will is a member of the National Skeet Shooting Association. He’s currently ranked as an A+ class shooter. Shooting all four shotgun gauges with an overall average of 96%. He hopes to qualify for team U.S.A. at the summer Olympics. Good luck, Will, we’ll all be pulling for ya. Since 1910 the Boy Scouts of America have helped develop exemplary character in the young people of our land. The 12 points of the Scout Law as recited by Representative Jones are as important to civil society today as they were 103 years ago. Likewise the Scout Oath’s emphasis on emphasizes the value of integrity. On my honor I’ll do my best.

to do my duty, to guide my country, to obey the scout law to help other people at all times, to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight. These timeless ideals echo our founding documents such as the preamble to our state constitution which reminds us of the source of our liberties. It begins, we the people of the state of North Carolina grateful to almighty God, the sovereign ruler of nations, for the preservation of the American union and the existence of our civil political and religious liberties and acknowledge in our dependence upon him, upon God, for the continuation of those blessings to us and to our posterity. The scouts of North Carolina recognize the responsibilities that are to accompany these God given rights and pledge to continue to live by scouting's timeless values doing our duty to God and our country. Thank you. [speaker changes] Thank you. The committee will please escort Justice Newby from the chamber. At this time, the chair would like to ask that all current boy scouts, active and scouting, any leader within the boy scouts, if they would please stand so that the house can properly recognize all of your hard work and activity within scouting. At this time, we will do our introduction of the pages. Please come forward. Pages, if you'll all please report to the front of the chamber. Mary Britton, Cumberland county. If you will, please take a step forward and raise your hand whenever the clerk calls your name. Thank you. Jacob Connor, Cumberland. Kevin Fitzgerald, Wake. Jackson Garrett, Buckham. Isabelle Hines, Wake. Benjamin Hodges, Buckham, Sarah Horne, Hayward. Sarah Jackson, Vance. Hayley Byer, New Hanover. Victoria Nobles, ??. Joshua Notsinger, Forsythe. Destiny Reed, Alamance. Sydney Rogers, Cumberland. Luke Stancel, Johnson. Garett Weiss, Cleveland. Jefferson Woodard, Wake. Thank you pages, you may now return to your post. Calender. House Bill 4, the clerk will read.

[SPEAKER] Committee Substitute for House Bill 4, a bill to be titled an act to address the unemployment insurance debt and to focus North Carolina’s Unemployment Insurance Program on Putting Claimants Back to Work. The General Assembly of North Carolina enacts. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Representative Howard, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGE] To debate the bill. [SPEAKER CHANGE] The lady is recognized to debate the Bill. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Thank you, Mr. Speaker and members of the House. Many of you were in the Finance Committee Meeting last Thursday and heard a lot of the parts of this Bill, and we’re going to go over it again tonight. This is an offer, an option to the turning, it’s an alternative by addressing number one, the issue. And the issue is, and I had to change these numbers this morning. We currently owe $2.5 billion to the Federal Government. And this is a debt of all the employers across the State of North Carolina. So what’s the consequence with this debt? It puts North Carolina at a sheer disadvantage with respect to trying to recruit jobs and bring in new industries to North Carolina. The day that a new company opens their doors for business in this state, they automatically become a debtor. They have to repay part of this debt to the Federal Government. And as I said, this proposal offers an alternative to the current repayment plan which has a final payment date of 2019. And in each year the Federal tax will increase on each employer for each employee that they have on their payroll. And that’s the Federal Government’s repayment plan. We didn't select it. It was automatically given to us, the repayment plan of this debt. If you pass this bill tonight, and the Senate does likewise, and the Governor signs this bill, we can have this debt repaid by the last quarter of 2015, possibly 2016. And we will have a billion dollars in our soda ?? fund which makes our plan solvent. We don’t have to do anything. We can continue on the same course that we've been on for many years. But we are not doing justice to the employers of the State of North Carolina. This is not a state debt. This does not have anything to do with the general fund but we have the authority to change our state plan, and that’s what we’re trying to do now to become solvent in a shorter period of time. Tonight, I’m sure that we’re going to hear some accusations regarding who’s at fault. Well, I can assure you there’s enough fault and blame to go all the way across the town of Raleigh but that we’re not going to gain anything by doing that, pointing fingers and proving that in 1994 certain things happened, in 1996. You can go all the way back and the facts are there. And the facts that you are going to hear, they’re the truth. I’m not going to argue that, that they’re not. All of the accusations in that part are the truth. I’m also sure that you’re going to hear a lot of accusations about how this bill was crafted, that it was done behind closed door, there was sunlight on this bill, that the information was not made public, that no one knew what the outcome of this bill was going to be. But will tell you factually that that is untruth.

China and-cents cents, and as many as half, Santa Ana, Stanton shouted, and sending them would be that will stand and not his honest, I'm saying, this and that has been out that, at the aegis-class at the Thomas said, standing on the a-half defensive about the planned on earth, and business-as-supply and ?? in a session that happy and five and two-to-as-as-we have enough is enough to stand trial than the events at the Santa Ana into this thing to have any business that has to me that if Allen said that his them together I look in the anti-tank of that size, standing about, and I think same time and that was one small for his in his hand in hand, and this is the fans to fix the problem in high as that lies beyond black man behind this was the timing of the here's the houses of the interesting and NT-time here, even, and his constant state of North Carolina and this time and if that happened, and this year that some of the city of time nation-thirds and that is, that's the that's invited the health of the session-searching ?? to not act, and this, as did the document that he had a competency, and have a dedicated not exonerate him, and as he had not that this is the fact that he has had a good, it's the end of his infant and that hasn't been tried, and that's why are you at the end of May 29 offense time this enhances the reasons that Casio has triumphed at a matter of time you spend on their hands as co- Ed, this stuff defiance of the knowledge base, and as a defense that in $1610 million has said, and then the manager is my understanding that hasn't happened and Washington, DC has the opportunity to buy spent time in ages, and at the sunset 19th would he give me any of his time has escalated his medium-high fence, and I'm not saying that he has said if any of the San Francisco weekend edition's from the outset and it ran as high values, and, as the state of North Carolina, and-eat and he sat down and intensive and in that have sent a-vis outs and the time and their businesses that have said that at the state Atty. Denise economy Allies became taxes are the ANC of tile ads that and they loose and scored higher than ?? when things happen so has enhanced the effect of a high-end of this deal is a fact is that I'm not that some of those security and that??...........

00:00 they did business the way they will do business after July 1 of 2013 I'm proud to say that we have the new director of the division of employment security on the floor tonight and that gentleman David Clag is totally committed to implementing this bill and doing the right thing the thing that we have looked at we all knew we had a problem and [??] excuse from this statement but it also has to have us know that we had a problem but we failed to address that problem because it was too difficult one of the charges to the division of unemployment will be we want to put people back to work opposed to becoming dependent on a weekly cheque and that cheque was never meant to be a long time solution it's certainly not a living wage and back in 19 and 35 when this program was created the definition was short term bridge to re-employment slowly it is becoming something different that's why we have to address this situation there's also another part in the bill that focuses on fraudulent abuse and the ability to collect those improper fraudulent payments that are out there in the state of North Carolina while were working on this bill we found that a 131 people incarcerated over at central prison were using the public phone calling the division of unemployment and that was their check in so they were able to draw unemployment benefits when they checked in they were reporting that they were able and available for work when we now have the provisions in place that we can reclaim those dollars the way we fix that little problem was we just blocked the number for the division of unemployment from over at the prison they can't call that number anymore another chief component is the division of workforce solutions and that's under the directions of the department of commerce gentleman by the name of Roger Shackle Ford I believe his assistant secretary over there and they will be implementing all of the necessary parts of this bill one piece that I will bring to your attention there will be a face to face interview with all new claimants the purpose of that is to assist their skills to determine if they need re-training or training but to match these new claimants with jobs that are available in the state of North Carolina and folks we wanna help these people find a job when I was at home this weekend talked to a lot of folks and most of the people who're currently on the unemployment they want a job they want to go back to work and this is our objective to help them find that job I won't tell you this bill is not perfect times change people change circumstances change but I'd like to draw your attention if you have a copy of the bill in front of you section 10 to be established a joint legislative [??] committee and I'm gonna promise you that's gonna be a working. 05:00

Committee. I believe there's going to be four members appointed by our speaker to serve on this committee, and there will be four members form the senate appointed by the president pro [??]. And as things change in the future, we will be able to sit there and address these changes with the department. It's gonna be a partnership that we work together. I'm gonna give you the short summary of the bill. The bill is lengthy but it was even longer in days gone by, and we didn't take anything out, the only thing that we did was just combine some of the language to make it easier to read. There's something called the employment security reserve fund and that is money that is collected from a surtax, a surtax that all of your employers pay. I want you to think about three silos. You have the [??] tax paid by the employers. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Howard if the lady will yield without objection the chair will suspend the 15 minutes time limit so that the member can continue the explanation. Is there objection? continue. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you sir. There's the three silos and all of the taxes are paid by the employer, there's no contribution by the employee. So this employment security reserve fund we have now - we will restrict the uses of this fund and cap the fund at $50 million dollars or the amount of the interest payment from the previous year. And any excess of this surtax will be swept to the federal government to apply toward our debt. There's a worker training trust fund and training employment account and we found several different accounts at the division, and we're going to eliminate these accounts because worker training is paid through a whole different source of funding from the federal government. And we're gonna take all of these dollars and transfer any balances in these accounts to our UI fund. There's the special security employment administration fund, and we found there was about 16 million dollars just laying in that fund. We're going to take ten million dollars and have that swept towards our debt, holding six million just in case there's an emergency for some unknown reason. The financing change, the SUTA changes, remember that's one of the three silos, SUTA, the state unemployment tax assessment. We're gonna increase the minimum and the maximum contribution by .06 and we're also moving to a formula as opposed to a very complicated tax table. This is a tax increase that the employers of the state of North Carolina have asked and agreed to have imposed on themselves. Another one of those three silos is the 20% surtax, it's been on there for many many years, but we're putting a trigger on that surtax and if the UI fund equals or exceeds one billion dollars than that surtax, again being paid by your employers, will trigger off putting more money back in the general fund of the employer with the hope that he or she will create those new jobs. However, if the fund drops below that billion dollars it automatically triggers back on. There's three subgroups. That's the Indian Nation, the tribe, we only have one, that's our...

[Speaker changes.]...Cherokee tribe. All government entities and all non-profits. They do business in a different way because they have a special, federal cut-out provision that allows them to do that. Currently, today, we, the State of North Carolina, each of your cities and your counties, unfortunately have the prerogative to have their benefits paid out the day that they are supposed to be paid out but they do not reimburse the fund for some...in some cases, twenty-two months later. So you can see that that's a drain on our account. When this bill passes, the State of North Carolina (That's why you see a little fiscal note?? with this bill.) The State of North Carolina and each city and each county will post one percent of their taxable wages in an account and that account will be used as a "draw account" and my friend, Representative Starnes used the analogy that this was currently ... they were usin' a credit card. Now they will be using a debit card because they will have the money in the account. That account will be...well, we'll true up that account once a year and everybody is playing at the table. When I talked about that this was a carefully, and sometimes painfully crafted bill. When those people came to the table, they were not thrilled, they weren't happy but they too understand...this is their tax base...in every city, every county...and they needed to be at the table to be able to pay their fair share in a timely manner. Now the benefit changes. There's not a lot of conversation about the benefit changes, about ????? the State of North Carolina will be looked at twice a year to make any adjustments. If we could ever get to 5.5% of unemployment, we don't need but just a few weeks to put people back into jobs. Another change is the calculation of the weekly benefit and that will be based on the average of the last two quarters, opposed to the high quarters. Talking about some of those changes, that change was made in 1994. The maximum weekly benefit, that's what all of your emails have been flying about...to max that out at $350. Many folks have asked, well, where did that number come from? It's pretty simple, if you look at the chart and add up all of the other states, divide by the like number, you're gonna come up with $350. I am not proud when I look at the chart to see that North Carolina is outside of the bell curve. We are the highest benefit...weekly benefit state in the south...sixteen southern states. That's not anything necessarily to be proud of. We want to be equal to but we don't need to be above. There's a waiting week requirement. We require a waiting week for all new claims and removing the waivers with regard to the waiting week. We have repealed the extended base period, the extended benefit trigger, we retained the two optional triggers but only when the benefits are paid 100% by the federal government. There's something that's called...and I'm almost done, ya'll!

[Speaker changes.] There's something that is called attached claims. Unfortunately, the business community in the state of North Carolina has used attached claims as part of their business model. If their chief, cook and bottle washer is currently employed at this restaurant...let's use the restaurant...and business gets a little slow and they don't need him to work every week, the employer simply files an attached claim for this employee and that means that that employee is still somewhat attached to that business. He, the employee, does not hafta look for work, does not hafta go to the employment security office, does not hafta be reassessed for training or re-training. We have eliminated for all practical purposes the provision of attached claim. Was your business community excited about that? No, but it was the right thing to do because better than half of the debt that we owe the federal government directly came from attached claims. We do provide a provision if that employer has a credit balance in his account, then he can do it one time per employee up to a six weeks' timeframe. There will be no further extensions where we've had attached claims ???????? for sometimes three to four months. The disqualification is based on each application for the benefits. We have removed substantial fault and most of the "good cause provisions". We retained good cause for domestic violence and also spousal relocation due to a military assignment. We did eliminate most of the other "good cause provisions". We have provided a clear definition for suitable work. It is defined as suitable work as "any work after ten weeks with UI benefits". Ladies and gentlemen, that is the brief explanation and, Mister Speaker, at this time, I'd like to make a motion. [Speaker changes.] The lady is recognized for a motion. [Speaker changes.] Mister Speaker, I move that we give House Bill 4 a favorable and I stand to answer any questions, not trying to cut off the debate and, secondly, Mister Speaker, I'd like to ask that staff be permitted on the floor. [Speaker changes.] The staff are permitted on the floor and available to any member as needed. Representative Luebke, please state your purpose. [Speaker changes.] To speak on the bill and then to offer an amendment. [Speaker changes.] The gentleman is recognized to speak on the bill. [Speaker changes.] Thank you, Mister Speaker. Members of the House, this is a very unbalanced bill. The people who are not included in the discussion of this bill are the unemployed. The unemployed people of this state had no advocates at the table as this bill was crafted. Representative Howard has presented the bill as she has talked about this group and that group and the other group but she has not talked about the groups not represented and that means the unemployed people of this state. What that has meant is that when she says very eloquently, and I appreciated very much her presentation...when she says we're all at fault or everyone's at fault, please remember the unemployed are not at fault. The unemployed had nothing to do with the decision of the General Assembly six times, sometimes with a Republican Speaker, sometimes with a Democratic Speaker...through the 1990's to lower the unemployment tax so that employers paid less into the unemployment insurance fund. Workers had nothing to do with that yet workers are ....

A major hit in this bill. How major? The staff did a calculation. The staff did a calculation of the impact between July one 2013, when this bill takes affect, and December thirty-one 2017. So, basically, we're talking about four and a half years. In that four and a half year period, the increase in the state unemployment tax to employers, the increase is twenty-four million dollars total, between 2013 and 2013. Cumulative, twenty-four million dollars. Try to guess how much is being given up during that same period by the unemployed of this state. The answer is, according to our fiscal staff, two point seven billion dollars in lost benefits. That is to say, in this bill, the ratio of taxes imposed upon business, state unemployment taxes, is twenty-four. The hit on workers and other unemployed is two point seven billion. That is a one to one hundred ratio. To me that is simply indefensible and could only happen because there were no advocates for the unemployed. Let me say, well, why would that have really been necessary, certainly the bill could be developed. Friends, in 2011 we had workers compensation reform, as it was called. Advocates for workers were at the table. We had medical malpractice reform, attorneys for those who filed claims were at the table. So, this bill is unusual and extraordinary in leaving the unemployed away from the debate and if you've gotten emails the way I have over the weekend, you'll have very clear emails from unemployed saying nobody talked to me about what it'd mean to my family in terms of loss of the ability to pay health insurance. In some cases, couple letters I've seen, the ability to pay my mortgage, so there will be a foreclosure on my house. And a very telling point from several of the letters which I received, was this; you're cutting my unemployment benefits which means I will be going to the department of social services, I will be going to the department of health, I will be going to the emergency room of the local hospital. In other words, you're just shifting costs here. You're hurting me. You're hurting me financially and you're forcing me to go to ask for government assistance, which I'd rather not have, but you're forcing me to do that. In other words, I can not live on the limited amount of the unemployment that, benefits that you're imposing in this bill. I'm sure of it because I'm barely getting by on what I'm being payed right in my benefits and I know I can't do it on the reductions that we have. Now, why in addition to that, basically one to one hundred ratio, which to me is enough reason why we ought to vote down this bill and star over with a more balance package. It's also important to know that North Carolina is not so out of whack with other southern states. For example, according to staff report, first of all North Carolina is at the national average. The national average for unemployment, average weekly benefit is two hundred and ninety-seven dollars. North Carolina's is two hundred and ninety-one. And as to there being no other state in the southeast that is close to North Carolina, well North Carolina pays two ninety-one average, Virginia pays two eighty-eight. There's no difference there. So, Virginia, we're not out of whack with Virginia. We will be a whole lot lower than Virginia with this bill, which will hurt the unemployed of this state. But it's just important not to exaggerate the problem and i think it's also clear when you look at the title bill. That the title of the bill is actually incomplete, is understated. Because what needs to be stated in the title of the bill, you have it on the screen or you have a hard copy. It says a bill entitled enact to address the unemployment insurance debt North Carolina, etcetera. But, it should say; and to address cuts in the benefits of the unemployed. That's really what's in this bill to such a major extent. The last point I would make before offering my amendment, members, is this; the payments being made by employers, both the state taxes and taxes that are being paid to the federal uninsurance, unemployment fund are temporary. When the debt is paid off, as Representative Howard has said, when the debt is paid off...

that extra tax is going away. It's a temporary increase in people's, in employer's taxes. But the benefit cuts are permanent. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Speaker. [SPEAKER CHANGES] That is so unfair. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman will yield. Rep. Howard, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To ask Rep. Luebke a question. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Does the gentleman yield for a question? [SPEAKER CHANGES] I yield. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman yields. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Luebke, in the bill, and I have read this several times, this information, the increases in the sorta tax that are being put in this bill against all employers, sir, do you understand that that is not temporary, that that is a permanent taxation on all of the employers and it would take the will of this chamber and the Senate chamber to remove or reduce those taxes? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Rep. Howard, what I'm referring to is the additional taxes. Of course, ?? is in our statutes. But the additional taxes we're talking about, the additional hit on employers under ??, the state tax, is just 24 million over this entire period. [SPEAKER CHANGES] ?? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Follow up question? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Does the gentleman yield? [SPEAKER CHANGES] I yield. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman yields. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Again, Mr. Luebke, with all due respect, do you understand that the tax increase for ?? tax in this bill is permanent. It does not go away once the debt is paid. I just want to be sure that you heard that clearly. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Well I do understand that piece, but the piece I'm referring to is the amount of payments that people are making to the federal fund. And those will go away, indeed that's the whole purpose of running the bill as you have. Is for that to be a temporary event that happens more quickly than would otherwise be the case. Those will be going off, they are temporary. But the cuts to the employees, to the unemployed are not temporary. Thank you Rep. Howard. Mr. Speaker, with that I'd like to move adoption of my amendment- [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman has been recognized for comments, the gentleman will be recognized to send forth his amendment in turn. The gentleman also has time left if you'd like to continue your debate. [SPEAKER CHANGES] No sir, I know we'd all like to eat dinner tonight, so I'm finished. But are you saying Mr. Speaker, that you'll recognize me in a few minutes from now? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes sir. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Ladies and gentlemen of the House, the clerk is in possession of 6 amendments, all amendments will be heard. We have conferred with the minority caucus, and I think that there is some agreement to try and limit the discussion on the amendments. The chair has every intention of allowing anyone who wishes to speak on the bill to speak, and we will be here as long as we need to to extend you that courtesy. Rep. Tine is recognized to send forth an amendment, the clerk will read. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Rep. Tine moves to amend the bill on page 8, line 51, to page 9, line 2, by rewriting those lines to read. [SPEAKER CHANGES] ?? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Rep. Luebke, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Speaker, I understood that amendments were being taken later, but you would not recognize me for my amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman will be recognized in turn, the chair recognized you for comments, the chair now recognizes Rep. Tine to speak to his amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Speaker. To start I would like to thank Chairman Howard again, and the revenue oversight committee for their work on this extremely important issue. It is very important that we get this debt paid as quickly as possible so if we should have another setback inside of the state we're more fiscally sound and prepared for that event. Therefore my amendment does not adjust the timeline in any way, and still creates a payback by 2015. What my amendment does is change the max payment from $350 to $425, that would be offset by an increase in the ?? by 15/100ths of a percentage point. This would create some additional pain from employers and future unemployed. The result of this amendment would increase the benefits by $120 million and cost about $37 per employee, or on a million dollar payroll would cost about $1800 per year. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Speaker.

Speaker: Representative Howard, please state your purpose. Representative: Mr. Speaker, we do not have copies of the said amendment. Speaker: The house will be at ease. Ladies and gentleman, those of you who have access to the amendments on your dashboards would raise your hand. Those of you who do not have access on the dashboard and would like to get a copy, they are available upon request, the default being that you would be accessing them on the dashboard. Please raise your hand if you would like copies of the amendment. The sergeant in arms will get the amendments. The chair will assume that if you would like copies of each of the other six amendments, if you would distribute those to each of the other six members at this time. The chair is happy to see that the vast majority of members have copies on the dashboard of the treaties. Thank you. Members, while we are going through the process of passing some 720 pieces of paper, the chair would like to ask any members who, intend to request a paper copy, register with the clerk so that we will be passing out 60-70 versus 720. Please check with the clerk, otherwise, we will assume that it is your responsibility to bring papers with you to the chamber going forward. Do all members have copies? Representative Time, is the gentleman finished with his debate? Representative: Yes sir. I strongly urge that we pass this amendment. Speaker: Representative Wydell, please state your purpose. Representative: To speak to the amendment. Speaker: The gentleman is recognized to debate the amendment. The house will come to order. Representative: Ladies and gentleman, I was in finance committee the other day and I do appreciate Representative Howard for explaining the bill, and I do realize the fact that we need to pass some kind if fiscal responsibility on this unemployment insurance. The only thing that I will say to you is that I come through a rural county, and I am sure I am looking out here at a lot of other folks who come from rural counties, and the county I come from does not have the availability of jobs. I thought, when I was campaigning, one thing I heard most on the campaign trail the most was, we need to go to Raleigh and compromise – not on your principals but on those things that are going to affect NC, especially those constituents you represent. I thought that, that was what this bill did. It laid out a very good compromise that was fiscally responsible and did not over burden the employers. Therefore, I urge the members of this body to pass this amendment. Speaker: Representative Ross please state your purpose. Representative: To speak on the amendment. Speaker: The lady is recognized to speak on the amendment. Representative: Ladies and gentleman, I will be brief. I think this is a very important amendment. A lot of the people out of work for the longest periods of time, are people who are in their 50’s and 60’s. They have been in managerial positions and have big, big financial obligations

mortgages, cobra payments, kids in school, and to ask them to have to live on $350 a week while they're looking for jobs, really it not just compromises their family, but it will also compromise those aspects of the economy, including the housing market and the insurance market. And so, I commend the amendment to you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Howard, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To speak on the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The lady is recognized debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I too, want to express my gratitude to the member offering the amendment, for his courtesy and openness in bringing this amendment to us. But with that said, Mr. Speaker, I'm going to have to ask that we vote against this amendment. The new rate in the bill is at .06, and that represents an impact of $12.54 per employee. And if you only have one or two, ten, maybe 100. That's not serious money. But when you have thousands of employees, every dollar certainly counts, and I'm not saying that every dollar doesn't count for everybody, but what this amendment will do is take the .06 rate and increase it by an additional 1.5 for a total rate of .21. And this would have an impact per employee, the total impact would be $52.67. That's the $15.05, plus the amendment which creates additional cost of 37.62, for total of $52.67. Has a pseudo tax. Let me remind you, that these employers are already paying additional ?? tax. That's imposed by the Federal government. I would ask you to vote no on the amendment, and let's do what this bill is designed to do. To leave those dollars, as many dollars as we can with the employers, and let them create new jobs, and have work opportunities. That's what this is designed to do. I remind you again, the definition of the program when it was instituted in 1935. Short term bridge to reemployment. Nobody can live on the amounts is what I keep hearing. Then I want to ask you, what's the difference in the price of a loaf of bread in the state of South Carolina than what it is in the state of North Carolina? All this running states have capped their maximum benefit much less than ours. The average benefits remain the same. And folks making in the, up to 40 thosand some dollars will see absolutely no change in what they're drawing. So let's give this bill an opportunity. I ask you to vote no. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Alexander, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I'm kind of caught between a couple of things. I [SPEAKER CHANGES] Does the gentleman wish to be recognized for a purpose? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Not at this time. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Further discussion, further debate? If not, the question before the house is the passage of the amendment offered by representative Tine to house bill for the House Committee substitute. All those in favor, vote aye. All opposed, vote no. The clerk will open the vote. All members wishing to vote, please record now.

The clerk will let the machine record the vote. 41 having voted in the affirmative and 74 in the negative, the amendment fails. Representative Luebke, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To send forward an amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman is recognized to send forth an amendment. The clerk will read. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Luebke moves to amend the bill on page 8, line 51, through page 9, line 2, by re-writing those lines to read: [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman is recognized to debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Speaker, Members. Let me say, first of all, that this amendment does not challenge the premise of the bill, that there will be a pay-off in 2015, of the debt. It accepts that there will be the speeded-up payments. The payment schedule that is advocated by the bill sponsor, and I accept that at this point for purposes of this amendment. What I am referencing in the amendment is the fact that North Carolina has one of the highest unemployment rates in the country right now. We heard that multiple times, multiple times from a Governor, and a candidate, who now has told us that he is going to sign this bill. But during the campaign we heard again and again how North Carolina has 9% unemployment, about the worst in the country. Well, now we have a situation where we are cutting off benefits to the unemployed at the very time that we acknowledge that we have a huge unemployment rate. And particularly in those areas of the west, far west, and east of I-95, there is terrible unemployment. Many of you know, republicans and democrats alike, that you have counties in which your unemployment rate is 15%. That means there are not many jobs out there, and the idea that somehow we are pampering the unemployed, one of the premises of the bill, is just wrong. And so, what my amendment does, is two things. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Speaker. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman will yield, Representative Blust, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To see if the gentleman will yield for a question. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I'll yield when I'm finished explaining this amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman yields at the end of his debate. The gentleman may continue. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you. I didn't want to lose the point here that we, first of all have terrible unemployment above 15% in many of our counties. And I want to stress, too, that one of the underlying impacts of this bill, so far unstated really by anyone, is that, just as Representative Ross has referenced the fact that people in their 50's and 60's have a harder time getting jobs, we need to speak the truth on this floor. Our African American citizens have a harder time finding jobs, being employed, being re-employed, than do white citizens. So the fact of the matter is that this bill does have an impact disproportionately on the African American citizens of our state. We need to recognize that. Now what my amendment does is this. Very simple. It says that, given that we have so many long-term unemployed in the state, shifting the maximum number of weeks back to 20 weeks is just wrong. 45 of the 50 states have 26 weeks or 25 weeks. That's what we have under current law. My amendment would bring us back to the current law. It would say that you could have up to 26 weeks. Does it mean everybody takes 26 weeks? No. It means those that are having a hard time getting a job, they can have up to 26 like we used to. This bill says the maximum they can ever have is 20 weeks. That puts us in a situation where we are less friendly, less understanding of the needs of long-term unemployed than Mississippi and Alabama, which, continue to recognize 26 weeks. What I would like to do is bring us back to 26 weeks and note that to help the long-term unemployed with this amendment, it is a tiny, tiny cost in terms of the increase in the insurance. The insurance goes from a 2.9% rate to 3.15%. Truly that is tiny in exchange for bringing more balance to the bill. If you vote against this amendment, you really are saying you don't want balance. Because I've identified a place where the long-term unemployed could really benefit from those extra 6 weeks. And I've also asked staff to find that place in terms of the cost of the bill...

[Speaker Changes] Cost of employers, its a tiny amount. So members I would ask you in the name of fairness, many long term unemployed, that we amend the bill to go back to the 26 weeks that we have had for decades in our state law. Speaker, I urge the adaption of the amendment. [Speaker Changes] Representative Blust. Representative Luebke indicated that he’d be willing to yield to a question. [Speaker Changes] Does the gentlemen wish to pose it at this time? [Speaker Changes] Mr. Speaker, that’d be fine. [Speaker Changes] Does the gentleman yield? [Speaker Changes] The gentleman yields. [Speaker Changes] Representative Leutke, you said that someone has said that we’re pampering the unemployed, and I’ve been here the whole debate. I’ve not heard anyone say that. Who has said that we’re pampering the unemployed through this bill? [Speaker Changes] Well first, Representative Blust, you and I are both in the finance committee and several members said that. They said that if only the unemployment benefits were available shorter workers would find jobs faster. Implying that workers are slack and don’t really want to work. So that was said here. And secondly in the bill’s explanation, there were references to the fact that we really were two generous to our people in North Carolina. Why, for example, as it was just said a few moments ago, should workers in North Carolina receive more unemployment benefits than those in South Carolina, when the difference in the cost of a loaf of bread isn’t all that great. My answer to that would be because we want to be more humane and more caring to our workers and recognized their situation and how needy they are. But the fact is, Representative Blesky, it was referenced both in committee and on the floor. [Speaker Changes] Representative Howard, please state your purpose. [Speaker Changes] To debate the amendment. [Speaker Changes] The lady is recognized to debate the amendment. [Speaker Changes] During the offering of the amendment, I tried to quickly get some numbers. This amendment is more costly than the previous amendment. That would take the psuedo tax and the surcharge to $77.75. Again, I’m just gonna ask, lets give this bill a chance to run and go into place. It has been carefully crafted. Again, I’m going to ask you to vote no on this amendment. [Speaker Changes] Representative Luebke, please state your purpose. Representative McMannis, please state your purpose. [Speaker Changes] To debate the amendment. [Speaker Changes] The lady is recognized to debate the amendment. [Speaker Changes] I would like to agree with the amendment because of the people in my district that I’m going to share a personal, but someone that was with my campaign whose husband worked as a manager with Townsend who lost his job, had a good job and a good salary, and she said its not killing us because our house was already paid off, our cars are older, they’re paid off. But where we had to upgrade our chicken houses, we’ve got all these loans and they’re killing us. Then she lost her job. Now fortunately, they both have found work now. She actually did not go on unemployment, but he was on unemployment for that full amount of time. He is 59 years old. Think about this, because a lot of us are somewhere in that age range, he had a good salary and they had debts that they had to meet. And he lost his salary and he couldn’t find a job, and its very hard at that age to find work. To find work that even, any kind of work. He ended up, what he did find, he’s making a lot less money and he is traveling a lot, but he was thrilled to find it. And yes, during the finance committee, there were implication that people chose not to get a job because it was easier to have the unemployment money. He was so embarrassed and humiliated about not having a job, he quit going to anything. He quit going to church, he quit going to functions. It is not easy to sit back and draw unemployment, just so you can pay your bills when you are trying your best to get a job and you just can’t find one. I don’t think 26 weeks is an unreasonable amount. And I think it puts us in the range of 43 other states. I think thats only fair. And I would like to commend this amendment. [Speaker Changes] Further discussion, further debate?

If not, the question before the house; is the passage of the amendment sent forth by representative Luebke for the house committee substitute for house bill 4. All that's in favor vote aye. All oppose vote no. The clerk will open the vote. All members wishing to record please do so at this time. Clerk will lock the machine and record the vote. 39 having vote in the affirmative and 78 in the negative. The amendment fails. Representative Alexander is recognized to send forth an amendment. The clerk will read. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Alexander moves to commend the bill on page 8 line 52 through page 9 line 2. Rewriting those lines to read. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentlemen is recognized to debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr Speaker. My amendment is sent forth in the spirit of the 16th president of the united states. One Abraham Licoln. Who defined a conservatism. What is conservatism. Is it not adherence to the old and tried against the new and untried? If in deed, Lincolns definition makes sense. Then my amendment is definitely in his spirit. Because what it does is permit us to maintain the maximum benefit of $535, as we have in the existing law. It permits us to maintain the formula that are just that benefit annually. Based upon the reality of what is going on in our labor market. And it also in lines 1 through 8, offsets the cost. So that everything else that has been discussed, in terms of accelerating the payback does in deed take place and the maximum benefit is kept. In this debate we have had a reference, I've heard references for instance, of what goes on in other states. I submit to you ladies and gentlemen that we live in the great state of North Carolina. Not in the sovereign state of South Carolina. Not up in the mountains of Tennessee or in the tide waters of Virginia. What we should be concerned with, is what is just, what is equitable, to the citizens of north Carolina. The existing law, only generates a maximum benefit that is 66 and 2/3rds of what the average wage is. 66 and 2 thirds. The proposal before us un-amended would reduce that benefit to around 44% of the average wage in north Carolina. If indeed the existing amount is deemed by many to be inadequate, as we have heard in this debate. A dial back to 40 something percent is less than inadequate. I don't know about most of you, but my email account has been blowing up with communications from rank and foul citizens. And those citizens have said over and over and over again that each floor as presented is and i am quoting, a really bad idea. Over and over and over again.

Blythe@ of Adrienne time that has been said to have been one of them as evidence of that age and death that made this time of the republican majority in the act of major party you stay in time as the activities of somebody standing with lots of the message and without even nothing can 60 acts of NT and im, seven years, and updates and four-bit - ms into the hands of Asian leader of the party lists events of the citizens of North Carolina ?? and embrace the festival's us, some have acted and maintained a function of a methodology that won the time he could have these are by death in that time since the speed and come to expect the compassion have come to expect he helped end of the scene , as she and that give that up to 47 of averages support person of the station purpose Saturday at this maker who is recognizing the time of the west said that mean that the so-and a messaging, status and not that he took the stand, sometimes any of that has been identified as active channel 7¢ each time this is a Hungarian Congress said he and has been closed and having a standard of events that than that, since that time procession president it's not a question for the house's passage of human support the president does either to the house may subscribe as well for alderman of all President Clinton ?? ?? ??ers receiver mark the season as a lot was important the one I didn't know where the comment that I made 100 human events person across PlayStation purpose of chat with an existing always recognize important partly the city walls president bill page when the last 45 to 49 everybody likes to read drily do is recognize making the agency's the current update is intended as a navy seal schedule at the weekly benefit amount will be the country within the downtime that at some on the wall: blind 60, is a few minutes than $350 of the time they're staying power and speed longer a question that becomes a deterrent to benefit of time between zero and 350 of our foreign call you take on the tiniest quarter of all we choose a long and you have to buy the Utica is widely used why is the night by 52 of her representative howard's proposal you take the last time warner's of wages and a muted by 22 ideas, and a centralized 2/4 wages and my kids to serve as an easy time of her career audience and what Representative Howard is proposing is not the time machine is whether the house majority stake ??.......

do, and what it does is it helps those employees who have taken fewer hours or maybe taken a little bit of a pay cut to keep their job, and make sure that they don’t get penalized by having their unemployment be maybe 100 dollars less simply because of what might have happened in the last two quarters with their employer. People talked about the chief cook and bottle washer getting cut back on hours but then the employer having to let them go. This would protect that chief cook and bottle washer up to 350 dollars, to make sure that he doesn’t maybe get 100 dollars. Maybe he could get 200 dollars a week while he’s looking for work. Again, the cap would be 350. This is what the vast majority of states do. This is what our law was back in 1993, and so I commend the amendment to you. I think it’s the very least that we can do for people that are out of work through no fault of their own. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Howard, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The lady is recognized to debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This amendment we had in Finance last Thursday, and again, I’m going to ask you to vote no on this amendment. It seems that it isn’t harmful to the formula, to the balance of the bill. It is egregiously harmful to the balance of the bill, and without trying to go into more depth, I will just say please vote no. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Further discussion, further debate. Representative Hall, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman is recognized to debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Speaker, and fellow House members, it’s clear that we are all human and we aren’t perfect in what we do, and so to take an opportunity at this time in part of the process to try and improve what we’re doing for the citizens of North Carolina, certainly we should not take offence at that. We should not shy away from that. We should say if we can do something to change something to change this and make it better… and I understand Representative Howard’s comment, that she says “Well let’s just do it like it is and we’ll fix it later.” Well using that same principle, that’s how we got to where we are, isn’t it? Didn’t we say “Let’s continue to let the account balance go down and get into the negative,” and “We’re going to fix it next year,” and “We’re going to fix it later,” and “We’re going to fix it later”? And where did we end up? Where we are now. And so I would ask that you think about how did we get here, and are we repeating what we did before? If this is an opportunity to improve the bill, if this is an opportunity to be fairer to the citizens of North Carolina, then we should take that opportunity. If you have 100% of the bill and 5% of it is wrong, you’ve got a 95% bill. If you can improve it, if you can do something to make it better starting out, then we won’t be repeating the mistakes of the past. I’d ask that you support the amendment. Let’s try to make this better as it moves forward. Certainly you have the votes for the bill, certainly this is a small change, but let’s not be stuck on doing what we did in the past, which was kick it down the road and say “We’ll come back and fix it later.” We know it’s a problem, but we’ll come back and fix it later. Let’s fix it now. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Further discussion, further debate? If not, the question before the House is the passage of the amendment sent forth by Representative Ross for the House Committee Substitute to House Bill 4. All in favor vote aye. All opposed vote no. The Clerk will open the vote. The Clerk will lock the machine and record the vote. 42 having voted in the affirmative and 75 in the negative, the amendment fails. Representative Wilkins is recognized to send forth an amendment. The Clerk will read. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Wilkins moves to amend the bill on page 20, lines 5 through 49, by rewriting the lines to read… [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman is recognized to debate the amendment.

Amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Speaker. Members, this is a simple and sane amendment. It changes the date of the - well I was gonna call them long-term benefits, emergency unemployment benefits. With the change long-term benefits will continue to January 1, 14. Without this change you're going to cut off $25 million dollars a week that flows into North Carolina and it is 100% federal money. If you don't make this date change that I'm proposing you're also gonna cut off emergency benefits to 80,000 North Carolina families. And folks if you don't think that emergency benefits are going to people who are in emergency situations, let me tell you I see them all too often. My county for one month , one month out of three and a half years came under 9% employment. We did that in November. Guess what happened in December? We went right back up. So I see a lot of long-term unemployed and they are in emergency situations. And I suggest that you approve this amendment, you will help these desperate North Carolina families. Thank you very much. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Michaux please state your purpose? [SPEAKER CHANGES] To speak on the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman is recognized to debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Speaker and ladies and gentleman of the house, we know that the votes are here to pass the bill as it is. But sometimes we get caught up in a whole canopy of issues here and we forget about why we are here. We forget about who sent us here. We forget about the service that we are to run. Now this amendment that's been offered by representative Wilkins is very simple. You've got 80.,000 people out there who are drawing this emergency unemployment. It's not costing the state of North Carolina one dime. But you've got 80,000 citizens, people that you have come here and sworn that you would protect and defend. These 80,000 people are our folks. So they are in need of these emergency funds., you pass this bill as it is right now those funds are cut, they have nothing except for what's left here. It's not gonna hurt anybody to put this date off until such time as they will not lose those benefits, which would be the end of the year as outlined in the relief act signed by congress. Folks think about the people. We're gonna pass the bill anyway, but just think about those 80,000 folks out there who are gonna be lost, who are gonna lose that emergency relief. I ask you support the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Robert Brawley please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To speak on the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman is recognized to debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] ladies and gentleman this is a tough issue. I'd like to commend representative Howard and her committee for the work they've done. But we talk about helping people that are out of work and I've even referred to as a permanent unemployment. The only reasons it's permanent unemployment, representative Wilkins I believe used the term a while ago, they've been out of work for three and a half years, 80,000 of them out of work for three and a half years, $25 million dollars in benefits. If we put up that $25 - if we don't keep the bill like it is somebody's got to pay that...

?? of a five million dollars in damages plus he calls it when I look at in-laws, where they've written and read the fine on additional 45 billion dollars in the delay implementation of them is something he'll chime was a hotline calls to his charitable and of other trusts, and has served on single 2000 man again. Halftime, or to sell some of his figures coming together somewhere amid a fulltime that's happy family that worrying about the data center rethink the way, Shiva, issuance of stopping in criticizing time in-class warfare with a little women work together a show nobody can stay longer and 21 and they said that as it is because of the times have been nothing but this as the villain 5 to 60 visit some of person as the PlayStation purpose chime know you is recognize making and I think the thing and I think it's the outlays time in the sent items that line is the current flowing down from our local newspapers and not found a number of homeless shelter in in the school system is I call them and chimed in finding out of his ??ren still a series of 28 elementary school ??ren in three at the inbox and formulating styled out average high school students that were no longer living with their whole 15 points each as time passed in C-C9 is class as the China has now leads are on the verge of foreign wars scenes and owns a new offering in person and a PlayStation purpose of the time because that is making the right to speak up and say state is some concern that seems to be stressing the status of prisons is the active people trial also implement it fits my career is, when best in the use of this slow time resistance offer is one states benefits of those currently 120 only was it does make an effort to offer which soon will announce an alliance someone turned out to dry leaves her mail messages and non-is just not safe until into a first offense and would that be on tracing his current deal purse I'm always in purpose city, and that because recognize making the edges different members of the house on this is a difficult time to deal with the bears that out during this is probably not be the most troublesome aspect of the bill because all the rest of the bill, the effects people have all become unemployed after July time this year as part of it all gets loss of one possibly a fact the Baltimore oriole on a long-term unemployment benefits time workers investments on that what happened here is the oldest and a lot in common, her memo last year we discussed the times for assumption was that he probably the best way to go out with this problem has been around for her four years and this bill is time except for all the other alternatives well as his bill was being put together on a day and has this error on white upgrading the Federal government on January 2 shootings that day and time stamps they test yet another extension of these emergency call time for a year and slide that as we did the following this very carefully and of these guys up there and don't even read another deal is not known if any of you this time there been set of you cannot change a statement accepts these fliers care Showtime that this well-being and seven ??..

said that this purple this provision was not in this bill chime in Havana initiative, bill and we could not trust the problem of getting me what the statement and farther down the road repairs all so it creates a bill out the 28 happy or people who had this prospective audience revision of the unknown fine ADM still have fired I'm Al to find employment and housing shopping mall in the inn at five more muscle the program instead of through the intersection with a national record of 20 seatimes service to go up, and, in-flight to OPS all of it is a timer is not be affected by this homicide in the body of his spot what we-all and all an identified in the hallways of the creation of your life by a record week of a share some of these wall of China find work so here are real people and infected times than half of what the whole bill is designed to miss any ?? were already, hospital on Monday to get this problem solved and get this year's tax increases, the businesses in North Carolina depth weapons that caused fire future of wartime past decade, let us not to Canada-and-out with this past week I'm somewhat higher, sorry about this but I don't have any way to do it in the Federal government and the beloved, or the one interesting thing I'm standing water bodies of this amendment is another percent from a distance for use on Federal lands in creative and the treasury sells their lives to the dodgers ?? and just setup shacks to help the economy before people together contractors with the daughter of that and just as is the time has been made that too far to all-out we got in this position is just great, related to understand the process and that therefore understands, but in this time several three, and this is my first being taken by view that faxes from North Carolina and calendars sent to Washington and a setback time , only half the game but when the Federal dollars to desert the judgment that some of the stark is enough money to pay down the doubts suddenly being taken by view the time that they don't have 1-86, somewhere so this really does it have on behalf of fact in word and that the economy by ?? and has this year is force 188-ounce can have the study paid out, I wish we had one of us I wish we could have this problem weekend and Sunday night: an interest in person with the PlayStation purpose ?? money, it does recognize that the instigator of ice, sports and politics since no one can see for the amendment recipient in which it was too high student, sponsors in a time as a question suspects were unemployed workers $25,000,000 from the house of the custom is in the house and people are confident in your lifetime culture and played in front of his emergency modes passed all 50 states receives mail to make use of we are giving up his mind 25 times the past 26 points its $690 in the hobby 80,000 families and 1.2 in the chapel be put back into the plan said and stressed to the extent to which you pop outfits you are hurting the retailing company said riled on one of the listeners and if it is part of what people are acted on timing was very hard on the field no men in prison plus the department is time-out, well-to somebody like blacks like should be a part of the ?? ??.....................

The thing to remember is this we all pay federal taxes. When a law past is in Washington the 50 states 25 million, what amount for us 25 million dollars a week, if we don't take it somebody else will use it. But we will not be able to get something that is entitled to us, under the bill pass, Republicans and Democrats together, that pass the physical cliff legislation so-called. We're just giving up 600 million dollars that we could have. Because we are in such a rush, to put the bill trough. Help the 80 thousand. Delay this bill 6 months and bring the money in the North Carolina to help his family, thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Pages it is now 9pm, I talk to you before the section, I told you I suspect we have to have to work a little bit longer then you are. Then you will today. You are here by dismiss. Thank you for your service. Representative Dwayne hall, please state your purpose. Set forth amendment mister speaker. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman's action is out of order. Unless is a perfecting amendment to senator Hall. The gentleman will be call on after we deposes of this current matter. Representative Brawley please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Speak a second time on the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman is recognized to debate the amendment a second time. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Ladies and gentleman, it is my understanding that even those are currently covered on extended benefits will be cut off on this date. But the reason they will be cut off. Is because the same federal government, that's done nothing for four years to help create jobs. Pass a bill January the 2nd and signed into law. That North Carolina or any other state for that matter, tries to take action, to alleviate the problem or correct the problem or pay off there debt. then the federal government is going to cut off the funding. So they pass law to tell us we have to spend the money, to correct their problem. if the federal government and the people who feel so strongly about keeping people unemployed. And that's the way I look at it. Then let the federal government pay this debts. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Michaux please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Speak a second time on the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentle man is recognized to debate the amendment a second time. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Folks let me tell you all this argument back and forth much is 80 thousand citizens of our state who are are in jeopardy of losing they unemployment benefits. Because they have not been able to find a job, you know Republican, and Democrat to pass that bill that, that representative Brawley just made reference to. Yes they knew what they were doing. They know exactly what they were doing. You talking abut folks. They took action and we are taking action. You going to pass this bill you gonna you not kicking it, can down the road [SPEAKER CHANGES] the gentleman will yield. Representative Brawley please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Ask representative Michaux. [SPEAKER CHANGES] No I will not yield. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman does not yield. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The problem is that there 80 thousand who are unemployed who have been looking for jobs. You show me one person in those 80 thousand who have not been looking for a job. I can tell you four, five, six, or seven right in Durham County. That have been looking for job what years. That have not been able to do it. I know folks that have basically taken jobs at McDonald and other places. Who hold a degrees. Who can't get a job. Now folks this people hurt. Six months you gonna cut them off. They should be able to get that money. Is 25 million dollars a week coming into our economy. That we, people get. It does two things it boost our economy, and it gives this people an opportunity to continue looking for the job. you want them to lose there homes and who you want them to lose there self respect. Sure kill the amendment but don't do it because, you shouldn't be done simply because you trying rectify.

I created Mister Brontë was created in us by host admitted they made me know. I'm just plain old arithmetic for years we could be taxed to employers because they were doing a good job. we came into a recession, people are lost. we ran out of money. we had about our behalf. I know that assignment, but for god sake don't let eighty thousand people suffer because of mistakes to be made. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Rosetta Robert Raleigh please take your purpose for some of his agent is not recognized to start the second a lot of time runs in our toys that your purpose is to debate the human Mister Unit as recognized economic agency for any and all [SPEAKER CHANGES] it's nice to have unanimously started trying to crawl all solutions to the crisis. I is vocally asked us was referred to. we had a physical plant and we started the process, way back in August looking in all things. there was no assumption no belief that the federal government in tended to extend the emergency benefits. it was blatantly finding that the emergency benefits with any hand on December twenty nine, and I can assure you that there was beginning to be more aggressive him job seeking and then hitting him in the past because those benefits were eating on the twenty ninth day of December, a fire midnight session in Washington with wireless telephones with files that were telling us that it appeared that there would be an extension of the emergency benefit is assumed to be free not as a calls in the end the night when all they were extended for another full year of my left and I might estimate statement and then get made in May, but it appears that there is a process that will continue to extend this emergency benefiting the last thing that we want to see in North Carolina is a program that will do just that. it's a tough call. I'm a always in play had been scribed by the US Department of Labor in insufficient. we had billions in revenue dollars month of November. again, revenue allows the ninth of December, and all at the veil was picked again together when I federal government eggs Studios is emergency benefits on the it is about action for us to take charge of my inflated state of North Carolina and continue to adhere to the federal government him for us to do. you know you can change the benefit yet I have to calculate the benefits in North Carolina, North Carolina. if you are in TN thirty seconds, then the fans. I will tell you that our people. I will allow charming standard beneficiaries of a gift. another twenty six weeks. I believe if I'm a fun class is hidden side of the September two thousand and eight days of extended benefits are about a hundred and twenty police intrusion, similarly they are now and how shall I do not think this is why we want to see in North Carolina. I asked him about that alumnus amendment and let us

him me where the discussion further debate on the amendment, if not a question of what houses the passage of the amendment sent for by representative welcomes the house may substitute for hospital for all viral but I all opposed out note above about All in favor vote aye. All opposed vote no. The clerk will open the vote. The clerk will let the machine record the vote what machine record about seventy eight or forty and very affirmative and seventy eight in the negative intimate fails are deserted line haul is recognized, some for the amendment of article written by Cindy D Hall moves to amend the bill on page thirty nine. line ten about rewriting the line to read the general is recognized to recommend a speaker of arise. [SPEAKER CHANGES] the first time this chamber to ask you agree with much of what that but my college all up, namely that we are all have to sacrifice repaid it to an half-billion dollar debt also like to agree with the rep of the powers opening comment that it does no good to look back and point fingers about how we got here. what I would like to do is look forward and as the small business owner myself on Odyssey not excited about these increases the number have to pay one tell us that I do have is that these increases will end up this bill does that, this bill, but she offered, and that in twenty fifteen and my member does not defeat the Nazi golfer. that the schedule that you play for the end the inquiry appointed and repay the debt by twenty fifteen. what my resolution. the assembly is to give these benefits begin the benefits, unemployed workers, a sunset, other like the increase in tax employer 's vaccine and one. five billion dollars in a acquaintance resolution brings fairness because it's not the fault of the employee that we had to have been our debt, North Carolina actually had a six hundred million dollars surplus for the great recession began documenting this amendment to you in the body [SPEAKER CHANGES] present. according to center purpose snowmobile. the human recognizability amendment of this will say [SPEAKER CHANGES] I don't want to spread the blame for the situation were in. we have offered several amendments to try to soften the burden on who pays for it again. this is an insurance plan, paid for by the employers in our state and I was here in some of those years back whenever are are a trust fund was reasonably healthy, but we realize it was not ready for a recession, but on the eve of that recession. we also could not find the consensus in the body to raise the rates as that recession began to unfold in front of us. so what happened is over the last forty years, North Carolina has benefited the employers of North Carolina administrated in lower premiums. we are full in favorability in unemployment insurance rights of all the states in America, so we had very favorable rates through this recession, but now it's time to pay the debt. so what we what this bill are looking at doesn't does favor that the debt is I believe I know I'm not from the employers which is the intent of the nineteen thirty five, until the video world that was partnered with the states and the federal government with the Social Security act and the unemployment act of nineteen thirty five to stabilize unemployment where citizens are not communities across this nation. the development reset Great Depression. now you are getting out of the great recession, not by creating jobs, but particularly benefits to this amendment would do is we'll so that I looks like a son of the update on the backs of the unemployed, not the employers putting in all fairness, I think that painted

To a fair system for our citizens with a reasonable, a common sense and decency tells us that this recession is long and deep and many of us know people are hurting. That's why the 26 weeks has been reasonable it's been reasonable for decades in North Carolina. We realize that it is hard to make it on 44 percent of the average, that average, 44 percent of the average salary in North Carolina will be our cap if we don't go back. Going back to 66 percent of the average is not ??, is not excessive so whenever we get this debt paid, let's be fair with our citizens and go back to those, those previous perditions in North Carolina where we indeed protected our workforce and our communities and our families from something that like any insurance policy nobody wants to use. In the, before the recession North Carolina was always in the top two, three, four states in the number of people who took unemployment and how quickly they went back to work. We can get back to that if we indeed focus on creating jobs in this state and working together to do that, but to say that this is a job's bill when all it does is cut unemployment benefits, I think that's a little disingenuous and we can at least fix it when we get the debt paid back to something that we can be proud of in the state, so I recommend the amendment to you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Howard please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] To debate the amendment Mr. Speaker. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The lady is recognized to debate the amendment. [SPEAKER CHANGES] It's rather disappointing to hear the members say that the only thing the bill does is cut benefits that isn't true and I don't believe that the member meant that in the context that it was stated but I'm bringing it back if you have a paper copy of your bill or if you can pull it up on your screens to section 10 of this bill and four members of this body, four of ya, will be appointed by our speaker to scrutinize the changes, what impact they have, how things need to play out totally in the bill not just the benefit changes, not just the 26 weeks but the entire portions of the bill the bill intact. Now I'm going to ask you to vote no on this amendment because we don't know as I stated in my opening remarks, things change, people change, circumstances change. That is the purpose of having this very active joint committee. I ask you to vote no, if you want to get involved sign yourself up to be a member of this committee. I'm sure there will be spaces available. Please vote no on this amendment.[SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Queen please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I left my light on I'm sorry I finished speaking already, thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Further discussion, further debate. If not the question before the house is the passage of the amendment sent forth by representative Duane Hall for the house committee substitute of house bill 4. All those in favor vote "aye", all opposed vote "no", the clerk will open the vote. The clerk will let the machine record the vote. Forty having voted affirmative and seventy eight in the negative the amendment fails. Ladies and Gentleman the chair is not in possession of any other amendments at this time we will begin debate on the bill, at this time the chair will also remind the members that this a constitutional, this is a three day bill, therefore it will not be read a third time today even if we would do that without objection so there will be adequate time to debate the bill tonight and as much time as you choose tomorrow. Representative Cunningham please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. speaker I rise to clarify to the house clerk all my votes are in support of the amendments put forth for the eighty thousand unemployed people in the state of North Carolina. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The lady

[Speaker]: which is to be recorded as having voted aye on each of these 6 amendments. So ordered. Further discussion, further debate on the Bill. Representative Adams, please state your purpose. [Representative Adams]: Thank you Mr. Speaker. Speak on the Bill please. [Speaker]: The lady is recognized to debate the Bill. [Representative Adams]: Thank you Mr. Speaker, Members of the House. This is certainly not a difficult choice for me. I’ve heard from a lot of citizens in Gilford County and throughout this State, who really believe that we’re doing the wrong thing. I agree with them. I want to appeal to you tonite for some compassion for the thousands of people who will be hurt by this Bill. I guess if you have a job and you make $30, $40 thousand dollars a year, whatever you make and you loose that job, then you’re reduced to taking a benefit of $300 or $500 a week. It’s still not enough for you to make ends meet for your family. I’m asking you to have some compassion for families who, we’re asking now to get by, food, clothing, whatever else they need to do, because many of them who are unemployed don’t have any additional income at all. This is a severe cut that we’re proposing. In other states, I’ve done some research and no other state has ever made such a severe cut. We’re punishing innocent people who don’t deserve it. Reducing the number of weeks. This is a double whammy to folks. You’re reducing the number of weeks that persons can receive benefits. You’re reducing the amount that they can get. We’re cutting off emergency support that may be available for them. North Carolina, yes, we do need to stabilize this unemployment compensation fund, but this is not the way to do it. I want again to appeal to you tonite to vote against this Bill. I know it’s on a fast track as we say around here, but I think we need to be careful about whom we penalize. Many of who are the least of these. We should not forget those unemployed workers who once provided support for our economy. Paid taxes and did all the things that many of us have been privileged to do. And they’ve been sort of caught as innocent victims. Victims of circumstances. Circumstances around an economy that was on a downward spiral, struggling to make a come back. Circumstances around jobs that are no longer available in North Carolina. I want to appeal to you tonite to listen to the people that sent you here. Many of them are, some of them are Democrats, some of them are Republicans, but they’re all struggling. I would ask that you would think about those people. Let’s put people over profits tonite. Vote against this Bill. [Speaker]: Representative [??], please state your purpose. [Representative [??]]: Speak on the Bill. [Speaker]: The gentleman is recognized to debate the Bill. [Representative [??]]: Thank you Mr. Speaker and Members of the House. I understand the speakers admonition that we have tomorrow to debate this also. But this is just such a topic that is so easy to demogog and a few things do need to be addressed from the start. I’ve already read reports in the press that just can’t quite seem to get the essence of this right. I don’t know if that’s purposeful or just accidental, but something I can gather just from what some of the Members have said today, this evening, some don’t realize that one of the essences of this Bill is to keep a rather large tax on North Carolina employers on their, that they get burdened for by having employees. This is a tax on employers for having employees. There is a programmed increase that’s rather hefty coming in the future. If you want to create more unemployed out there in the future, just try not addressing this problem some more. I don’t know if there’s a purposeful design to deceive, but there’s been some things that have in effect have been deceptive tonite, I do want

The members that, that brought this subject up can, if they've got as many facts as they spewed out from this report, this projection done by our staff, then they must know some of the other figures that they've left off. I've heard a couple of times the one hundred to one. It's one hundred to one unemployed, burdened on the unemployed versus the employer. Now that comes from reading one column on SUTA, state unemployment tax from this report and totally leaving out another column on FUTA, which is the entire purpose of the bill is to stop some of the FUTA increases in the future from occurring, and they leave off the eight hundred million that is projected from the FUTA. So that one hundred to one is totally false and I believe is designed to get that somewhere out there in the public and in the press and in peoples' minds so it just looks cruel and heartless. And I hear that motif over and over on issue and issue that you guys can't really be serious about doing this, you're just so heartless. And the heartlessness is not doing something about a problem that you might hear the term we inherited. I've heard that term for several years now, at the national level, if you will look at a handout, for, that I had distributed, now this problem is partly of our own making. If you will look back in January of 2009, there was nothing owed. And as we went through 2009, February, March, April, May, June, July, that year the legislature did not get out until August. There was almost a billion dollars in debt run up while we were in session. Now, I think it was sometime around April or maybe even March that Governing Magazine had an article about how this problem was arising and I don't think that we were unaware of it. And Representative Luebke, you were one of the chairs of the finance committee as this debt materialized, and I didn't see any attempt to address it. And it is a shame that members here are having to take this difficult vote this early in the session, this is the fourth legislative day, seventy percent plus are in their first or second year. Had this legislature acted, they wouldn't have to be taking this tough vote on this issue and it, it's just a shame. And to hear members from the other side talk about kicking the can down the road, it's just rather disconcerting now. We're also hearing no other sate has done this. This is just draconian. There was another handout given out in finance committee on Thursday that shows North Carolina has the third highest debt owed to the federal government behind California and New York. Oh, we're gonna get out, none of our South Eastern states have had to cut their benefits or do any of this, but Florida's, a rather large state, is only six hundred and eighty four hundred in debt. South Carolina is six hundred and seventy five million, and the rest of Southern states trail that so North Carolina is three and four and five times what's happened in the other states. So we have a much bigger problem. That's why we're having to take bigger steps to fix it. So there is a valid reason behind doing what we're doing. Is this a balanced approach? I would point out that the, this figure on how balanced it is between the unemployed and the employer is just a projection. There is no way to tell in two hundred and, in 2016 and 2017 what the unemployment rate is gonna be, who's gonna be unemployed. This program is designed to give temporary assistance, not pay everybody's bill, give temporary assistance for twenty six weeks. Now we're cutting that to twenty, but you gotta remember the average duration is only sixteen weeks. Not everybody who qualifies gets twenty six weeks. So it's been exaggerated how much this affects the future unemployed, and that's another thing to remember. This bill is affecting people who become unemployed as far as the benefit structure after July first 2013, it's not affecting benefit-wise those who are currently on unemployed, unemployment.

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There is going to be pain and suffering. God knows we’ve seen so much of that already. But we are either going to keep not kicking the can down the road, but kicking the drum down the road. We’re going to either do that for the next few years or we’re going to turn this state around. You’re going to see issues that we’ll be debating on tax reform and regulatory reform. And this is one of the things that we have to do, this bill to try and position this state to put it in the best competitive advantage to bring jobs so that folks will have an opportunity to provide for themselves and not to be provided for. And I think when they provide for themselves, I think it is then that they realize a real sense of self-worth and pride. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Further discussion, further debate. If not, the questions, the question before the House is the passage of House committee substitute for House bill 4 on its second reading. All those in favor will vote aye, all opposed vote no. The clerk will open the vote. All members wishing to record, please do so at this time. And ladies and gentlemen, when the Chair makes that request it is because at least one member is seated and has not voted. The clerk will lock the machine and record the vote. 76 having voted in the affirmative and 42 in the negative, the House committee substitute for House bill 4 has passed its second reading and will remain on the calendar. And ladies and gentlemen, again, the Chair is trying to watch, and when the Chair observes a member that is either seated at their desk or in the chamber at the time the vote, the voting machine is open, the Chair is trying to remind every member to take a quick look at their light to make sure they have recorded a vote. And, of course, all of you are entitled not to vote on any matter. But we’re trying to do that to make the process as expedient as possible. Representative Davis, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I rise, your honor, to, Mr. Speaker, to say that I meant to vote yes and I mistakenly voted no on the last bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentlemen will be recorded as having voted yes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you ??. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Luebke, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Torbett, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Obviously, you’re the one that was addressing me. I thought I pushed the green through my fingernails. Obviously, I didn’t. I’m pushing it now. I’d like to register as voting aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentlemen will be recorded as having voted aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Larry Hall, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Speaker, just had a question. If members mistakenly voted their conscience, are they going to be allowed to change their votes? [SPEAKER CHANGES] The Chair’s always open to members changing their votes. Incidentally, on the day of the session and not the following day. Ladies and gentlemen, this completes the calendar for today. We’ll go to notices and announcements. A couple, or one other housekeeping matter, right now, is the intent of the Chair to hold session tomorrow at 2 p.m. and on Wednesday at 2 p.m. Currently, we’re planning for 1 p.m. on Thursday, but the Chair is trying to work with committee members and others to see if we can move that earlier in the day. And we will, we will attempt to do that as much as possible, particularly earlier in the session. But at this point, please plan for 1 p.m. It will be no later than that, and it may possibly be earlier. Notices and announcements. Representative Dollar, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGES] One announcement. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The gentleman is recognized for an announcement. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Members of the House, for those of you on appropriations and for anyone else, any other member, we are going to have a joint informational session on the budget tomorrow morning at 8:30 in room 643. Encourage all members to come. We’re going to have staff make some presentations on the overall environment, which our budget is operating some past history and the like. We will have a similar session, probably looking at revenue

Forecast and the like on Wednesday morning at 8:30. So please come out tomorrow morning. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Representative Langdon, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGE] To make an announcement. [SPEAKER CHANGE] The gentleman is recognized. [SPEAKER CHANGE] The Education Committee will not meet tomorrow as was previously scheduled. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Representative McGrady, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGE] For an announcement. [SPEAKER CHANGE] The gentleman is recognized. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Thank you Mister Speaker. Colleagues, many of us have served as county commissioners or county managers prior to coming to the General Assembly. Tomorrow morning, those of you who were a former county commissioner or former county manager are invited to a meeting of the county coalition, which I hope will soon turn into the county caucus. We will be meeting from 7:30 to 8:30 in room 1425 of the legislative building and I believe there will be some breakfasty sort of things to get you to the appropriations meeting in time. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Representative Moore, please state your purpose. The clerk will read. [SPEAKER CHANGE] The House Committee on Rules will meet tomorrow at 10 AM in room 1228/1327 of the legislative building. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Further notices and announcements? Representative Moore is recognized. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Representative [SPEAKER CHANGE] The gentleman will yield. Representative Larry Hall, please state your purpose. [SPEAKER CHANGE] For an announcement. [SPEAKER CHANGE] The gentleman is recognized. [SPEAKER CHANGE] The Democrats will caucus one hour before session tomorrow. That will be at 1 PM in our caucus meeting room. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Further notices and announcements? [SPEAKER CHANGE] One notice and announcement if I may. [SPEAKER CHANGE] The gentleman is recognized for an announcement. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Mister Speaker and members of the House, just before we adjourn, the Rules Committee meeting tomorrow is going to be to take up the House permanent rules. So for those member of Rules, please be there at 10:00. For a motion. [SPEAKER CHANGE] The gentleman is recognized for a motion. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Mister Speaker, I move that the House do now adjourn to reconvene on Tuesday, February 5th, 2013 at 2:00 PM. [SPEAKER CHANGE] Representative Moore moves seconded by Representative Torbett that the House to now adjourn to reconvene on Tuesday, February 5th at 2 PM. All in favor say aye. All opposed say no. The ayes have it. The House stands adjourned.