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Senate | September 28, 2015 | Chamber | Senate Session, Part Two

Full MP3 Audio File

Soon will come to order, sergeant in arms to close the doors. Members to go to their seats. Members and guests in the gallery please silence all your electronic devices. Leading the Senate in prayers is Reverend Peter Milner Senate Chaplain all members and guests in the gallery will please stand. Please pray with me. Lord God, you are so good and you've been our help in the past and you are our help today through your covenant faithfulness we've been able to endure a long session. Who are we that you are mindful of us, Lord your creatures, and Lord as we stand before you in prayer we trust that there's nobody that actually cares for our lives more than you, so we're so thankful tonight Lord, that you remind us through Saint Peter to cast all our anxiety upon him for he cares for you and it's in the name of Jesus the one that carried all of our burdens that we pray amen. Senator Berger is recognized for a motion. Thank you Mr president the journal of Thursday September 24, 2015 has been examined is found to be correct. I move that we dispense with the reading of the journal and that it stand approved as written. Senators let's come to order. [xx] objection the journal for September 24th stands approved as written, we have leave of absence granted today for Senator Barringer, Cook, Lowe, Newton, Rucho and Woodard, and we do have a nurse of the day with us today, Anne Marie Paterson Pal of Kerry North Carolina, is here with us, thank you for joining us on the senate today. senator stein the motion sent a waver of and jury is happy to extend courtesy of gallery to Erick [xx], state youth cancer coordinator with the youth legislative assembly program in Harrnet county and Daniel Alvarado from Wilson who serves as the civil rights co-chair. If you're with us today in the Gallery, please stand and be recognized. Senator Apadoca for what purpose do you rise? Senator Wade, for what purpose do you rise? To make a motion to withdraw the conference report 765 that was turned in on Thursday. Withdraw all, senator Wade withdraws all the conference for House Bill 765. Mr. President, I need to submit a revised conference report. You can submit your reports senator can we have a page grabbed that from Senator Wein. Clerk will read. Conference Report, House bill 765 bill and the entire act provide further legal authority releases states of North Carolina but providing various administrative reforms by eliminating certain unnecessary or outdated certain and regulations and modernization or simplifying regulations by making statutory changes. Senator Apodaca for what do you rise? Multiple motions, Mr. President. Senator Apodaca you have the floor for your motions. First, Mr. President, the bill that was just read in the conference Report 765 Regulatory Reform of 2015 needs to be placed on the end of today's calendar. Without objection, so ordered. For adoption. Thank you. senate bill 371 elemanium[sp?] CEO is on tonight's calendar, remove from nice calendar and re-refer to committee rules. Objections are in order. Senate bill 391 county omnibus legislation tonight's calendar remove and reform the committee on roles.  Objections are in order. Objections are in order. Mr. President before we came in senate bill 159 corrected reevaluation and senate bill 513 North Carolina of 2015 were read in moved that they be placed on tonight's wonderful concurrence vote.

Objections are in order.  Mr, president one additional if I may. You have the floor. House bill 539 on tonight's calendar, charter school funding move to the end of the calendar please. Objections are in order. Mr. President. concurrence move that  brought before us for immediate consideration? Without objection, so ordered. Alright senators so that takes us into our calendar for the evening we are going to start with senate bill 513 for concurrence, Senate bill 513l North Carolina form after 2015 Senator Jackson is recognized to speak to the bill. Thank you Mr. President, members of the senate this is the North Carolina of 2015 we sent over what I thought was a great bill to the house and apparently they wanted to change, and delete, and add a lot of changes to us all I would ask that you not concur to this vote, please, do not concur. Senator Jackson asked that you do not concur, do we have any further discussion or debate? Hearing none question for the senate is the motion concur senate bill, house committee substitute senate bill 513 all in favor will vote aye, opposed will vote no, five seconds will be allowed for the voting, clerk will record the vote. Four having voted in the affirmative and 39 Senator Apodaca, Apodaca no, four having voted in the affirmative, and 40 in the negative, the senate does not concur and house committee substitute senate bill 513, and the house will be notified moving on to the local bills, third reading roll call bill house bill 526 clerk will read. house bill 526, Stanfield annexation, local de-annexation [xx]. Do we have any discussion or debate? Hearing none, the question for the senate as it passage of senate committee substitute to House Bill 526 on its third reading. All in favor vote aye, opposed to vote no. Five seconds to be allowed for the voting, the clerk will record the vote. Hartsell, [xx] aye, aye aye 44 having voted in the affirmative and zero in the negative Senate committee substitute house bill 526 passes it's third reading men will be engrossed and be send to the house for [xx] senate committee substitute. Moving on to public bills, third reading. House bill 318, clerk will read. House bill 318, protect North Carolina workers Act Senator Sanders is recognized. Thank you Mr. President. Ladies and gentlemen we had a lot of good questions on this bill on Thursday, I would ask for your continued support as we move North Carolina forward in the positive direction. Thank you. Senator Apodaca for what purpose do you rise? Motion on 318. Senator Apodaca you have the floor. Mr. President we need to move that to the end of the calendar please. So ordered. Moving on to public bills for concurrence Senate bill 379 clerk will read. Senate bill law 379 [xx] is located on state property. Senator McKissick is recornized This is pretty straight forward bill. There was one minor change in the bill when it was ordered of the house, I guess for [xx] Ford's purposes the only thing that Regan did was remove, what could have been perceived as an obligation on the part of state agencies to go

out and plot where this cemeteries are located. That was removed so there would not be any cost to burden State agencies only identifying known cemeteries. I want to thank Senator Bingham for his help for this bill, I would ask that you concur. senator McKissick as we concur do we have any discussion or debate? Hearing none the question for the senate the motion to concur on house committee substitute senate bill 379, all in favor vote aye, opposed will vote no. Five seconds to be allowed for the voting, clerk will record the vote. 44 having vote in the affirmative and zero in the negative, senate concurrence in the house committee substitute to Senate Bill 379, it would be enrolled and sent to the governor a couple of conference reports for adoption, house bill 215, clerk will read House bill 215, procedure for a waiver in jury trial. Senator Lee is recognized. Thank you Mr president, essentially there were two changes made to what we passed here in the senate, one of them dealt with the findings of facts, that section was deleted where a judge upon motion would make findings of fact after the verdict which renders it of guilt or innocence. The other change was in the ratification of the waiver of jury trail after the ten day period, where they have as  matter right the ability to revoke it. Now they were certain criteria in the bill that we passed and now the defendant may only revoke the waiver upon the trial judge bonding, that the ratification won't cause unreasonable [xx] delay to the state, I would ask that you adopt. Is there any further discussion, or debate? Hearing none question for the senate is the motion to adopt the conference report to house bill 215 all in favor will vote aye, opposed will vote no five seconds to be allowed for the voting, clerk will record the vote Jackson aye, Berger aye, Mckissick aye. 44 having voted in the affirmative and 0 in the negative, the conference report for house bill 215 is adopted and the House will be notified. House Bill 495, Clerk will read.  House Bill 495, [xx] modernization technical changes. Senator Tucker is recognized, House bill 495 Senator Tucker. This far.  Yes sir we had a couple of changes, with this Bill senators, but for the most part it stayed intact, we changed a couple of dates and the bill as we sent it over came back to us mostly whole, so hopefully that will be enough information for you to answer your questions if you want any further information I will be glad to answer any questions. Thank you sir. Do we have any further discussion or debate? Senator Ford, for what purpose do you rise? Yes, Mr. President see if I can get senator tucker to answer a questions  senator tucker to answer questions Senator Tucker you are up for a question? Yes sir I'm standing forward.   Can you give me that summary again? summary we changed today and primarily we changed provision in there that made sure always search chose the most qualified the reason we had qualified in there and we changed the word to most qualified we met with the state employees they only had one provision and one change they didn't want more policies or rules changed so while we made that change and everybody seems to be on board with that, hopefully that answers your question sir, Thank you. Any further discussion or debate [xx]. question. Senator Tucker do you yield? Yes Sir I think so. Senator Tucker, did you say you changed the word for most qualified add two most qualified.  Did I hear that right? No sir we changed the wording from the yes you did get it right so we changed the word qualified employee to the most qualified employee thank you sir.  Any further discussion or debate, hearing none question for the senate is the motion to adopt conference report for house bill 495 all in favor will vote aye opposed will vote no 5 seconds to be left for the voting Clerk will record the vote. Tillman aye, Clark aye 41 having voted in the affirmative and three in the negative the Senate does adopt the conference report for house bill 495 and the house will be notified. Moving on to senate bill

159 For concurrence clerk will read. Mr President? Senator Apodaca what purpose you arise? Let's move 159 till tomorrow's calendar please. Without objection so ordered Thank you Mr. President and please senator Tillman is ready to roll on HB539. House bill 539 clerk will Read House bill 539 charter school funding. Senator Tillman is recognized. Thank you Mr President members of the senate. This bill makes some changes to the charter school bill and availing primarily with funding a And Mr. President I've an amendment to send forth I believe you've it. Clerk will read   Senator Tillman moves to amend the bill Senator Tillman is recognized to explain the amendment As most of you know there's been a large inequity in the amount of funds that go to charter schools versus over the public, traditional public schools is about 35% difference in the amount of money that the charitors get our public school as well as traditional public schools and there has been many attempts over the years to try to rectify the funding as you all know, Speaker Hartley[sp?] got quite a few changes made that changed the [xx] farming that was available to some very unfair and inequitable funding, so what we've tried to do with this bill is negotiate for 9 months now, with the various parties, the closest I have can come to an agreement is what we have before us, so I would entertain any questions that's dealing with the four or five sections of the budget and so I'd be happy to take any questions you have at this time if you look this amendments over. Do we have any discussions or debate on the amendment [xx] for what purpose do you rise? To send forward a request to. You can send forward Representative Page bring that sheet up here please. Do we have any discussion or debate on the amendment? Hearing none, the question before the senate is the adoption of amendment one all in favor vote aye, oppose will vote No. Five seconds to be allowed for the voting. Clerk will record the vote. McInnis, Senator McInnis aye, Tucker aye, Curtis aye, Smith-Ingram aye. 34 having voted in the affirmative and 9 in the negative, amendment one is adopted. The Bill as amended is back before the body. Do we have any further discussions or debate? Senator Stein for purpose do you rise? To send forward an amendment. Senator Stein you can send forward your amendment. Thank you. Got it, clerk will read. Senator Stein moves to amend the bill. Senator Stein is recognized to explain the amendment. The amendment is pretty simple, we all for fair funding and to the extent charter schools don't have enough funds it's because we as a state are not investing enough on public education. We've fallen to 48th in the nation in terms of per people investment, 48th. There's a ranking that just came out today ranking States from best to worst in terms of where to be a teacher. North Carolina came in at 50th. The problem with under-funding charter school isn't that we're funding to much public schools. The problem with under-funding charter schools is we're not funding charter schools or public schools sufficiently. The answer to funding charter schools is not to take more funds away from our traditional public schools when they desperately need it and are underfunded as it is, and that is particularly the case when you're taking funds to give to charter schools for services that the traditional public schools provide that the charter schools do not provide. My amendment solves one of this problems as you'll see, it says that indirect costs are to be shared except for indirect calls from school systems participation in federal child nutrition programs. Why in the world would we take the indirect cost that costs millions of dollars away from traditional public schools, that have the burden of actually feeding kids, and give it to charter schools which do not share that same obligation. They don't have to provide food, they don't have to provide transportation. If we are going to take the monies for food, and these are indirect cost things like the power that it's takes to run a kitchen, the refrigeration,

the extra staff time. Anything it takes indirect to administer food programs, that's what this funds are. They should stay with their traditional public schools. Be happy to take any questions. Do we have any discussion or debate Senator Tillman for what purpose do you rise? Thank you Mr. President members of the senate speak on the, are we still on the amendment? We are on the amendment Senator, you have the floor.  Senator Stein, maybe you know, maybe you don't know that many charter schools do have lunch programs. Many do have transportation and provide that. Many that don't yet have it want to get it, and you don't get it with no dollars. You have to have planning, you have to all this costs associated with the red tape, dealing with any federal program. Any school lunch program you must have some funds to work with, and then simply distribute some of those indirect costs to the charter schools so that they can establish these programs where they don't have them.and.mr president. Senator stein for what purpose do you rise? To see if Senator Tillman will yield to a question. Senator Tillman do you yield? Yes. I am all for where you are headed with this. Will you impose a requirement on the charter schools to provide the food if we're going to give them the indirect costs for providing food? I would be more than happy to share this which charter schools if they actually provided the food? So let's put a requirement on them to do it if they get the money, is that something you could agree with? No, you cant get there until you get some funds to work with, many of these are planing to have this lunch programs but they got to have planing money, they got to have staff, they got to have organizational money, you can't do that out of thin air. Do we have any further discussion or debate on the amendment? Senator Ford for what purpose do you rise? To see if Senator Tillman will yield for a question.  Senator Tillman do you yield? Senator Tillman, help me understand your rationale for not supporting the amendment when charter schools are not required to provide a nutrition program for the kids as they take them in these public schools. Maybe I would to ask you who provides the money for their buildings and their grounds and all that, they do. Tax payers don't pay a dollar for that, but, if you're going to have programs, you've go to have some seed money. That's all that's taking, these indirect calls that need to be shared that's all we are talking about I can't get there without the money. Follow up Senator Tillman do you yield for a follow up? I do. Thank you Senator Tillman I hear you on indirect cost in general but I want to bring you back to nutritional program as it relates to providing lunches for the students. I'm still trying to understand why would want to take public money from a public school that is obligated to provide a nutrition program, give that indirect call to ensure which other schools that are not required to provide the nutrition program. Many charters schools provide rather than the federally approved lunches, they don't want go through the red tape and hustle they provide bag lunches and so forth, but it still take overhead costs to setup to do that and those schools are getting nothing they need to get some money to operate with whether or not they follow the federal guidelines. Mr President to speak briefly on the amendment. Senator floor. Ladies and gentlemen of Senate, many of you know I have a child who goes to public school. I just don't understand understand why would require public schools to share [xx] revenue with chatter schools, when they're not required to have a nutritional program, to me it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, and I would ask for your consideration to support the amendment. Senator Hise, for what purpose do you rise? To speak to the amendment. Senator Hise, you have the floor Thank you, Mr. President. Members of the Senate, the nature of our charter schools are their innovations. When they come up, the things they do better yes, I have two children in the public school system. We don't have an charter option for those. Charter school children do not go all day without eating lunch. That's not the way the system works. But many choose not to participate in a federal program that mandates everything from how you serve and what you do. We've seen the programs come up. Someone happens to go through a line or didn't bring a proper lunch and we had to force them to buy chicken nuggets or others, and most parents pay for their children's lunch. That's money I come up with every day in coming forward but if a charter school decides to do the system differently, if kids get to charter school without riding on the bus or they get a lunch without going through the federal program, we want to penalize that school system and take away their money. Even for parents who would

otherwise be paying for the lunch, supplementing the lunch for other individuals, we're going to take away any of those funds that they could have received. Now school systems have a lot of problems with lunch. It happens to be on numbers served. They don't get the money on the basis of how many students they have or other programs like that. It's not an allocated formula in that matter. What we have here is blatantly an attempt to try to find another part of money that we can make sure that charter schools can be innovative with because they're showing up at public schools and some other things that they're doing and that's why this memo is coming forward again. Senator [xx] Senator Hise how are you? Senator Hise you are our resident statistician, God knows why you chose that line of study, but going down that line Senator Stan has tendency to get really loose with the facts and everything in make of this, he quoted a study some [xx] thing that came out today, do we know if that study is thorough or the ranking or do you anything about group? I do not and fortunately I don't recur the study he reference that was coming through, but most to this in individuals and I would say this, it's pretty easy to find their funding sources and others and I'll get that information to you as soon as I can. Well, thank you. Mr. President, inquiry of the Chair. Senator Stan quoted some organization that we have no knowledge off in this chamber and used to this fact, can we ask him to provide us with the statistical data backing that up please. Senator I think in that question if you like but it really didn't have to do exactly with the amendment, but, senator you have the floor. Thank you Mr. President. Yes, [xx] were to have a.com and they use a comprehensive analysis in which I analysed job opportunity in competition rank, which has to do in part with how much to pay and then they analyse a whole bunch of other factors for academic and work environment rank, and when they analyze these two things together, the North Carolina comes in it's 50th. Fall of [xx] I don't understand you do you yield for clerk? I yield.  Do you know where they accumulate their data from, Senator Stan? I do not. No further questions. Senator Tucker, for what purpose do you rise?  To speak to the amendment. Senator Tucker you have the floor to speak to the amendment. Let me just make one statement here, senates if I my, we are talking about public schools it's like public school I served on the first chtter school board in the 90s when we started our chtter school in county and yes Senator Ford, they do eat lunch during the day, nobody starves. We have 40% of that school comes from under privileged children who would be in the Federal launch programs if they were in a public school, their fate, they provide transportation because moms and vans have a sign to different houses that don't have a ride to school and, get them to school. Charter schools are innovative, but when I served on that board and we started out, it was a monumental effort to block every pass we could get to start that charter school by the public schools, it was unbelievable, even to the point, Senator Stan, you remember, some of the charter schools had to sue the public schools to get their money. I can concur with Senator Heinz, this is another opportunity to block a pot of money from getting to the charter schools. They will spend this money on food because they already spend it in. Now maybe they can move some of their funds to capital improvement where counties don't have to pay for it. Charter schools are popping up everywhere, and the public schools do a great job, but people want options and this is an option and this amendment allows them to feed children with indirect cost yet they already have direct cost on so I don't understand the hoopla we're talking about public schools. Again public schools thank you. Senator Stine for what purpose you rise? To speak the first time on the amendment. Senator you've the floor.   Thank you Mr President. To say Apodaca's point I wish he's still on the chamber. Thank you.  Sources for this study are The U. S. Census Bureau, U. S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, NEA, National Center for Educational Statistics, Missouri Economic Research and Information Center and [xx] Hub Research. Mr. President Mr. President. Senator Apadaca for what purpose do you rise? May I ask senator Stan a question? Senator Stan do you yield?

I do. I'm sorry senator Stan, did you say NEA? I did. Okay. Thank you sir, Senator stein you are up for a question I do With that data, do they take care or do they take into account our health care plan for the teachers? I doubt that they do. does it take into account the pension plan for the teachers? Not for any other teacher and any other staff so this discussion does not even in detain to the amendments so, lets move on with the amendment does anybody have discussion on the amendment we will discuss the amendments I have a point sir I did not yield the floor Senator Stein, I'm sorry I did not yield the floor well Senator Stein we can stop the debate here on things that are not detain to  the amendment so lets move on with the amendment Senator Ford I'm not done speaking about the amendment, if I may Mr president, I was speaking the first time on the amendment you were speaking about the amendment? Yes  I was, and I got interrupted to respond to a question which I did but I never yielded the floor. Thank you Senator you have the floor to speak to the amendment. Thank you Mr president What if we do not pass this amendment what we are in fact doing is taking a public school kid, a traditional public schools lunch money but we are not going to feed the kids with it. There's no obligation on any charter school to feed any children with this money. If you want to put an obligation on charter schools to feed them and Senator Tillman and I had agreed upon an amendment last session as you all will remember that required charter schools to provide food and we gave them all kinds of exceptions from federal regulations, but they had to provide food. If we did that, that would be fine. But we don't do that in this bill, yet we are taking the public school's lunch money but we are not feeding the kids. It's the wrong thing to do. Mr president. Senator Raven for what purpose do you rise?   To speak to on the amendment.  Senator Raven you have the floor to speak to the amendment. I have been trying to listen intently to all going on and I have a couple of things running through my head. One of them is if we don't apportion the money the way it's being apportioned in the bill the way it's written, the school lunch is going to get bigger in the public schools than they are now is the food going to change? Is any food being taken from any child's mouth or are the LEAs going to spend it on other things of innovative quality brought up across the floor, I doubt very much if the lunches are going to be smaller, and they ain't going to get bigger they're going to be whatever's prescribed by the Fed because they get involved in our business anyhow, so I don't see what the discussion is really about and I would like to make one comment and also, there is some data that suggests that as state funds or county, this state gives is in the top ten in the nation in how much we give to education. Not the little 50 or 48 or whatever, thank you. Senator Ford for what purpose do you rise? See if Senator Stan will yield for a question. Senator Stan do you yield?  I do. Senator Stan since public, excuse me, since charter schools are not required to provide a nutritional program, if your amendment fails that means that public funds will go to charter schools that are not required to provide a nutritional program. Is that correct? That is correct. Thank you. Senator Bryant for what purpose do you rise? To speak on the amendment. Senator Bryant, you have the floor to speak to the amendment. I just wanted to speak mostly in reaction to the remarks by Senator Rabin about what would happen to these funds. Almost all the nutritional programs that I'm aware of, particularly in my district, are operating in the red in fact they struggle to operate with the federal moneys that they have in terms of staff, overhead, food, etc and we fight with them all the time about selling certain unhealthier foods in order to make money to try to make the nutritional programs work. So yes you will be taking food out of the mouths of children in the public schools to give the money for those costs to a charter school that is not providing food and that is wrong. Thank you. Do we have any further discussion or debate on the amendment? Hearing none, the question for the Senate is the adoption of amendment two. All in favor vote aye opposed will vote no. Five seconds will be allowed for the voting. The Clerk will record the vote. Hise, no. 18 having voted we have some vote changes.

Do we have any vote changes? Senator Pate is no. Apodaca is no. Tillman is no. Wade is no anybody else will change the vote. 14 having voted on the affirmative and 29 here in the negative amendment two fails the bill has amended is back before the body. Do we have any further discussion or debate? Senator Brock. Mr. President on amendment one, I would like to change my vote from no to aye. The clerk changes his vote from no to aye on the first amendment and the final count was, 35 to eight do we have any further discussion or debate made on the bill as amended. Senator [xx] who has arrived to the chamber. Senator Waddell for what purpose do you rise? Thank you Mr. President. You want to speak to the bill Senator? I do. Senator Waddell  you have the floor. As ladies and gentlemen of the senate, I think we have to be very fair and aquitable, as we think about the one 215 districts that we have in this state and the 1.5 million students and we think about the fairness of this bill. I feel ashamed that it comes so late and so close to [xx] because it really creates inequity[sp?] when it comes to school systems and districts having to look at what's in it. Let's think about it. Since Chatter Schools receives some of their fundings from Alias the fiction between our traditional schools and the chatters continues to increase, and we don't want that friction. We want things to be be fair, just and honest. This will continue to, the friction will continue to be [xx] between the two, unless we are fair. With that I have an amendment. Senator Waddell you can send forward your amendment, if we could have a page, gather that amendment bring it forward please. Clerk will read. Senator Waddell moves to amend the bill. Senator Waddell is recognized to explain the amendment. Okay, and this is a sample amendment. In the quest for saying this is an act to provide for damages when funds are not transferred. What it seeks to do is as we move to amend the bill on page one, lines two through six by rewriting the lines to read, an act to provide for damages when funds are not transfered within required time lines. Between local school administrative units and charter schools, provide that the state funding for charter schools returning to the local school administrative unit. If a student leaves charter school, and returns to the local school administrative unit at any time during the school year, and modify charter school funding and uniform budget format, for local school administrative units. I think I had talked to the bill sponsor about this earlier, and someone did have a discussion on it. Because it's really fair if a student is in a charter and leaves the charter, then comes back to the traditional school, because that school must provide for the student regardless. So the funding should follow the student, just as it followed him to the charter, and that's what this amendment is about. Senator Tillman for what purpose do you rise? Thank you Mr. President, yes Senator Waddell did speak to me. She didn't anywhere but she spoke to me about this, and I will tell you what we have done, we have a second month look-back to see if funds ought to be shifted with the students. We now have a fifth months look back, which we passed just a couple of years ago. So we are giving it two look backs, up to the fifth month, the school year is half over. and I don't think we need to keep sending money back and forth so that's what we are doing now, I think that a common niche the majority of senator what else concern. Senator Jack, for what purpose do you rise? Speak to the amendment. Senator Jack you have the floor.

Somebody consider when you look at funding, one of the great challenges where the school is they have to usually start the school the beginning of the year with the number of students they think they're going to have the student drops out traditional private schools don't send money back they keep it, there has to be some sort of standard we talked about how we have actually adjusted it to be as fair as possible so that as much money as possible is where the student is but if you hire some teachers at a traditional school or at a chartered school and a student leaves, you can't just fire the teachers those staff and the teachers need to be in place and at some point you need to say here is what's going to be for the year otherwise you just can't function as an administrative unit, so I ask you not to support this amendment. Any further discussion or debate on the amendment? As Senator Waddell and Senator Clerk your microphones are on you might want to turn these off. Thank you. Any further discussion or or debate on amendment three. Hearing none, the question for the Senate is the adoption of amendment three. All in favor will vote aye, opposed will vote no. Five seconds to be allowed for the voting and the clerk will record the vote. 15 having voted in the affirmative and 29 in the negative, amendment three fails, the bill as amended is back before the body. Do we have any further discussion or debate on the bill as amended? Senator Ford for what purpose do you rise? Speak on the bill. Senator Ford you have the floor to speak to the bill. Thank Mr. President. Ladies and gentlemen of the Senate, as a good registered Democrat I am a supporter of charter schools, have been since I've been here. It has not been popular with some of my colleagues and sometimes it has not been popular at home, but my contention is, gentlemen of the Senate, is that as long as we have public schools that are either under-performing or failing we need to provide options. And I'm going to maintain that position, and I think the competition will push our public schools to get better. However, I cannot support this particular bill. Because of the inconsistencies and questions remaining concerning funding, I just can't do it and I would love to work with you, Senator Tillman, in the future on a bill where we could find some consistencies and equity in public funding going to our charter schools. Again, this is a tough call for me but I cannot, based on the remaining questions, support this bill. Senator Jackson for what purpose do you rise? Speak the bill. Senator Jackson you have the floor to speak to the bill. This bill isn't about whether you like charter schools or not, this bill is about whether you like lawsuits or not from a none partisan stand point, I assure you the language in this bill needs a closer look. Numerous sections are unclear, and [xx] highly this area has been, we should know better than to rush this at the last minute, there are some equities that needs to be addressed Senator Ford spoke to them, I spoke to them, Senator Tucker, Senator Tillman, but this bill will not achieve your intent, this bill will only function as a starting gun for a new round of law suits if you're looking for a way to transfer money from public schools to trial of attorneys you've found the perfect vehicle Any further discussion or debate on the bill as amended. Senator McKissick, for what purpose do you rise. To speak on the bill. Senator McKissic you have the floor to speak to the bill When this bill came up about a week ago, and we were sitting there looking at it's far reaching implications in finance the things that struck me is being exceptional about this bill is that nobody could explain the physical impact, the financial implications to the LAAs or to the charter schools, and I find it rather disturbing, when I'm being asked to vote on a bill without truly understanding it's financial implications, and how we're shifting those resources, and this bill fundamentally shifts resources. And it shifts it in a way that further undermines the financial viability of our traditional public schools. If somebody could have sat back and said, look for a large urban school district, this is likes what's going to happen. For a medium sized ones, this is the impact that we may see based upon student population, based upon some known variables. To this day that information has never come forth, and has never been provided. I don't know how we as good policy makers can sit here, and make these types of far reaching decisions that can further undermine our traditional public schools, in terms of financial viability without having that data available. All the language here hear

about indirect cause, I don't know for the life of me why it would be unreasonable to put provisions in this bill that says perhaps you get those indirect costs if you're providing that service. If you're not providing the service, you don't deserve to share in the costs, that's plain, that's simple, that's common sense. Why that type of common sense language should be opposed, I truly don't know, we're putting in new provisions about somebody leaving at the quest. After October 15th, I leave one to my school system or any other schools in this state, unless I'm specific about what is going to traditional public schools or charters, those funds get redistributed! There's a whole host of provisions here that have far we can implications. When I asked back in finance, for somebody to come forth from the LEAs, we had representative from the school administrators association to come forward. She very articulately and sycncli[sp?] talked about what this would mean in terms of the ability for our traditional public schools to continue providing services that they are required to provide, that are optional for these charters. We need to think deeply, we need to understand these implications, we need to know how these costs are shifting, we shouldn't be passing legislation without having a full understanding of that. Charter schools are public schools, charter schools get their allocations per pupil, and many people decide to send their children to charters. I support their independent right to make those decisions. But the same way I would not support legislation that would take money from charters an unduly, an unfairly shifted tradition of public schools. I cannot possibly support legislation that would do the opposite, I cannot support this bill. Senator Tillman for what purpose do you arise?   To file time on the bill. You spoke about common sense Senator [xx] I have not known the words that you have spoken tonight to be a bastion of common sense. evidently I've been listening for several years and I've not heard a whole of it coming on, but if you have a lunch program and you don't do the federal guidelines because of the crazy red tape, and you still provide a lunch and you get nothing for it. You think that's fair I guess.common sense tells you ought to get the overhead cost shared. We're not even taking any of the lunch program cost. And all this is federal dollars. We're not taking a dime of state dollars and yet you see no unfairness in that, I'm appalled at your common sense Sandra, I really am, but all this is trying to take that 35-40% underfunding that the charters get less than the public schools because Hartney put in this crazy amendments that took all of that away from us, in 2010, now I don't know if you were here or not and I don't know if you remember that, but folks that's what's happened. The charter schools were getting about a 100% and all of a sudden with amendment done in the middle of the night, and we lost all that, I'm trying to get it back, and we're not there yet, we still got ways to go, to get pure equity That's the common sense that I see in the bill. Senator Daniel for what purpose do you rise? To see if senator Tillman will yield for a question. Senator Tillman do you yield? Yes sir Senator Tillman, I'm looking here at the 2014-2015 bill that we passed senate shows that there is a point, valid point $5.5 billion going to the [xx] schools and I guess when you add on top of that, federal and local funding that number I assume would be 11 billion, 11.1 So my question is I think here in this bill we're talking about you've told us we're talking about a total of $11, 12 million state wide. Billion. Out of 11 billion, are we only talking, how much are talking about out of 11 billion that's actually being transferred by this bill we're talking from here tonight? No state dollars we're talking about local and federal, you might even be talking about $11 million that of millions school children, so, that's just virtually  dollars that very, very little money for a student, that's all we're talking about, we're just scratching the surface of what needs to be done. There are many other areas, the charters in this negotiation gave up for is that we're in the prior amendment. So there's been a lot of give and take, no give and take from the public schools, that charters gave up several things here that ought to be in this amendment. Thank you senator. Senator Robinson, for what purpose do you rise?  To change my vote on amendment A1. Senator Robinson changes it from No to I! From No to I. From No to I 36 to 7 was the final count, do

we have any further discussion or debate on the bill as amended? Hearing none, question for the senators the passage for the committee substitute to house bill 539 are submitted on the second reading all in favor will vote aye, oppose will vote no five seconds will be allowed for the voting, clerk will record the vote. 25 having voted in the affirmative and 19 in the negative, Senate Committee Substitute to House Bill 539 as amended passed its second reading  without objection be read a third time.  North Carolina General Assembly enacts. We have a discussion on the debate, hearing none of course before the senate surpasses of the senate committee substitute to house bill 539 as amended on its third reading all in favor say aye. Aye. Oppose no. No.  The ayes have it. Senate committee substitute, House Bill 539 has amended, passes it's third reading, the amendment will be engrossed will be sent to the House for conference to the senate committee substitute. Mr. President. Mr. President. Senator Waddell for what purpose do you rise?  I'd like to also change my vote in A1. Senator Waddell changes her vote on amendment one of the last bill from no to aye, 37-6 final count. Senator Payne for what purpose do you rise? Mr. President I like to make a conference committee report, correction appointment for.  You have the floor senator. Okay, thank you this is not the time sensitive, Senator Berger appoints the following senators to the conference committee on Senate Bill 513 the form act of 2015. the Chair is Senator Jackson of Samson, members are Senator Brock and Senator Wade. Mr. President. Senator Brock for what purpose do you rise?  Change an earlier vote please.  Senate Bill 513 Senate Bill in from aye to no. Senate Bill 513 from aye to no,  final count. Second reading Senator. That was Our senators public bills conference report for adoption of House Bill 765 the Clerk will read. Mr President.  Mr President.  Senator Blue for what purpose do you arise? I'd defer to.   Senator Apodaca for what purpose do you arise?     I was going to move to suspend the roles that allow staff on the floor. So ordered, Senator Blue for what purpose do you arise? Senator Blue for what purpose do you arise? I was going to say that this, I'm not sure whether the conference report that was with the bill. Senator Wade if you want to respond to Senator Blue you have the floor. Yes, thank you Mr. President. Senator Blue there's only two differences, one is there was an offer from the house on a 4.2b, to be a study on solar energy by Senate conference committee and the House conference committee agreed to it and now the house decided they wanted to omit it. So that's the one change and there's one other change, there's only two changes. The other one is 4.39 that's alternative methods for biodegradable Agricultural plastic disposal that passed the Senate in the form act on May 19th 43 to 2. So that's the only changes from the conference report that was turned in. OK does that fulfill your [xx] Mr president. Senator Apodaca for what purpose do you arise? Question for Senator Blue if I may. Senator Blue do you yield? I yield.  Would you like sometime senator? Let me look at those two, I will need about ten minutes probably fifteen Let's just stand at lease for about three minutes or so and three or more minutes. Mr president Senator Berger for what purpose do you rise? To send forward the conference forth. Senator you can send forth your conference report, page deliver the subject please. New page.

Thank you page Brock, clerk will read, Conference report, house bill 272. House Bill 272 a bill to be entitled an act to appoint persons to various public offices up upon the recommendation of the Speaker the house of representative present for the chairman of the the senate and the minority leader of the senate. Mr president Senator Burger, for what purpose do you In reference to that conference just read in, I would ask that it be added at the end of tonight's calendar So ordered Mr president senator Davis for what purpose do you arise? I change my vote on House Bill 495. Davis changes his vote on House Bill 495 Mr. President. Senator VanDuyn, for what purpose do you rise? I too would like to change my vote on 495. And Van Duyn, Davies and Van Duyn on 495 and Mr President. Senator McKissick. To do the same thing on House Bill 495 [xx]. Anybody else what to change their vote on 495 I figure is now unanimous. Senator Blue, you as well? Ok, go on Davis 44 -0 that wraps it up. Mr president Senator Covic, for what purpose do you rise? Mr president, I'd like a moment of personal privilege at the appropriate time.  Since we have come back from recess, the senator will do that. Okay? Thank you very much. Mr. President. Senator Blue for what purpose do you rise? I did not want to change my vote but I have reviewed the bill and Senator [xx] has represented the changes and we're fine with that. Senator you did not want to change your vote on that? No, thank you. Ok, you're the only one senator, you're the hold out. So the final count was 43 to 1 then on that bill. alright senators let's come back to order, and senator Crovick? Senator Crovick, you are recognized for a point of personal privilege out of order. Thank you Mr. President. Members today it's my great honor and my pleasure to stand before you and recognize some remarkable young people that are with us tonight. And recognized achievements of the Hunter Safety team, from Yadkin County. For many years, Forbush High School has made it a priority to teach young people how to respect firearms, use them safely and through its Hunter Safety team program. This program not only teaches the teens how to use firearms responsibly, but it teaches a variety of other outdoor skills like orienteering, and identification of plants and animals. And the Hunter Safety program places an emphasis on conservation and respectful treatment of the environment. Like many sports and scouts programs,  the Hunter safety program combines outdoor activities and teaching the young folks values such as mutual respect, diligence, and most of all team work, you may remember that last year this team visited with us after winning a national championship and they're here again tonight through their hard work and dedication from their team members, their coaches, their teachers, their families, they have accomplished some wonderful things. This year the Forbish[sp?] High School safely team won first place in mini advance at National level and individual members of the team scored very high as well, seniors won first place in archery, shot gun, riffle, handle responsibility, and wildlife identification. The juniors took home the top price in this events, shot gun, handle responsibility, and wildlife identification, individuals won at the national level, zack Norman, a junior took second place overall in the junior team individual awards Matthew Lanberry[sp] took third place overall. Mr. Norman also places first in archery and third in shotgun among the juniors. With Mr Lansbury also placed

in first in the hundred responsibility exam and Clayton Medline taking second. Among the seniors award winning placed first as Joline Parkline, first place win in the muzzle lottery event and Jordan Dickens for second place win in muzzle lotter and first place in wildlife life identification. Mr president am so proud of this young folks and all of that team and I'm honored that they are here tonight like for you welcome the Full Bush National Champion Under safety Team. Thank you Senator Krawiec and upon the most of senator Krawiec foresight Kamiakin County, the chair is happy to extent courtesy of the gallery to the Full Bush Middle Tone High school under safety teams where both recently won the National championships the students are joined by coaches Carston Hopson[sp?], Brian Poind Lourey Bob, Chris Parker and Tobi Wiggler  and Wanner Wiggler please stand you're recognized, thanks for joining us in the Senate. Congratulations Mr president. Senator Apodaca for what purpose do you arise? Announcement Mr President. Senator Apodaca you have the floor. Thank you Mr President, members during Senator Kay's dedication to those talented young folks. The [xx] committee had a meeting and we're happy to let everyone knows that she has now won the [xx] for her presentation. Congratulations Senator. Mr. President. Senator Brock[sp] for what purpose do you rise? To sent for a conference report. Senator you can send forth your conference report, we have a page come grab the conference report. There you go. Thank you Senator. The clerk will read. House Bill report, House Bill 327, the bill is being entitled an act  to study emergency medical service personnel safety from hospital threats and what defensive resources should be allowed to prevent injury to the emergency medical service personnel or the patients under their care and to make technical and conformed changes to the statute governance regulation of emergency medical service to reflect new national standard for emergency medical personnel. We've already read in house bill 765 senator Wade is recognized Thank you Mr. President, I've already gone over the two changes. Senator Wade, excuse me, that was wrong. House bill 765, clerk will read House bill 765, regulatory reform act of 15. Thank you senator Wade, you're recognized. Finally, I've already gone over the two changes in the Conference Report that was put in tonight, everything else was exactly the same that's been posted since Friday. So what I would ask that we adopt the Conference Report. Senator Wade asks we adopt the Conference Report, do we have any discussion, or debate? Senator Ford, for what purpose do you rise? To see if Senator Wade will yield to a question. Senator Wade, do you yield? Yes, sir. I will. As it relates to Section 409 life of landfill permits. It's in my understanding that we're going to go from a two year Landfill Permit to the life of the site? Senator Ford we've already passed that, that wasn't changed in the Conference Report, it was basically if you'd like to know the change in the Conference Report, there was a little technical change that the effective day to go to life of site was some the problem with it was the fact that if you wanted to go to life a site and you had a 10 year contract, or a permit, you had to wait till your permit was expired before you could go to lighter site. All this does is allow you on the adoption day to go the lighter side. If you want to be permitted for that. Follow up? Senator Wade, do you yield for a follow up? Yes I will. Thank you, Senator Wade. I'm aware of that. My question I was just clarifying my question before I actually asked the question, and the question is since you're going to go from 18 year permit to the light of the site, where does the oversight come in with the change in law. Mr. President.

You have the floor, Senator. Well Senator, [xx], which has now changed their name, can go at any time and check any land fill without calling, without telling you their coming or they can come once or twice a year. So it doesn't change any of the requirements of being able to go out and inspect the land fills. Thank you, Ms. [xx] Do we have any further discussion or debate? Senator Jackson, for what purpose do you rise? To speak to the conference report. Senator Jackson, you have the floor. What started as a one page bill about gravel has become this year's defining piece of environmental legislation. The changes in this bill will allow the destruction of most of the isolated wetlands across our state, the self order probation denies neighbors and communities the information they need to establish and jump if we leave, it limit requirement for cleaning up the ground water contamination, it relaxes acts as requirement for controlling storm water pollution from development on the coast. It significantly reduces the number of air quality monitors which are vital for detecting unexpected declines in air quality, it allows the destruction of thousands stream across the state without requiring any mitigation this bill is a gift to everyone looking to do Thus on behalf of future generations I urge you to vote no. Any further discussion or debate on the conference report? Hearing none, request for the Senate is the motion to adopt the conference report for house bill 765. All in favor will vote aye, oppose vote no. Five seconds to be allowed for the voting, clerk will record the vote. Five no. 28 having voted in the affirmative and 16 in the negative, the Senate adopts Conference for House Bill 765 and the House will be notified. House Bill 539, clerk will read. House Bill 539, Charter funding. Excuse me, we already did that one. We don't want to do that one again. House bill 318, clerk will read. House bill 318, Protect North Carolina Workers Act. Mr. President. Senator Jackson, for what purpose do you rise? To send forth the amendment on House Bill 318. Senator you can send forth your amendment Senator Jackson, move to amend the bill. Senator Jackson is recognized to explain the amendment. Thank you Mr President, members this amendment basically will take in section 16, and this is from a request from the department of health and human services, as well as from several of my DSS directors within my district. They are saying that they do not have time to implement this change by the end of the year and they would ask that they go to March 1st with the change and that's all this amendment does is allowing them to go to March 1st instead of December 31st and I'd appreciate your support and be glad to answer any questions. Do we've any discussion or debate on the amendment? Hearing none the question before the Senate is the adoption of amendment four all in favor will vote aye, opposed will vote no, five seconds will be allowed for the voting clerk to record the vote. Heise aye, Smith aye, Smith Ingram aye. 45 having voted in the affirmative and 0 in the negative amendment four is adopted, the bill is amended, is back before the body Senator Anderson did you want to speak to the bill maybe further discussion or debate, Senator Robinson for what purpose do you rise? To send forth an amendment.  Senator Robinson we have it, the Clerk will read. Senator Robinson moves to amend the bill. Senator Robinson is recognized to explain the amendment. Thank you Mr. President. Ladies and gentlemen as the amendments says this be a word a man learns three through seven and rewrite it and then also on page three line 28 through page five line 41 and by the lead in those lines. And what it does today, I heard from the chief of police in greensville and latter from the police in Burmington., and who are opposed to these sections in this field and the reason they opposed are several, one is that

they have been able to work to implement their own documentation so that they have built trust in the community which is a critical thing especially for the police department during these days people are more comfortable they indicate with reporting crime, with reporting domestic violence and even human which we know is a major crime, the police department, the [xx] that this is call saving to the police department, having IDs that they can verify saves time when they're identifying individuals in order to solve crimes. Taking away this provision ties the hand of law enforcement and takes away their effort in terms of working with communities to build trust and to work with individuals who are law abiding and want also to create safer communities, the police chiefs and law enforcement agencies across the state are asking that these lines be deleted from this field I ask for your support. Senator Stan for what purpose do you rise? To speak on the amendment. Senator Stan you have the speak to the amendment. Thank you I'd like to thank senator Robinson for bringing this amendment forward, this is actually the point that I'd raised last week about concerns raised by the administrative office of the courts and what they had expressed was that if judicial officials can't rely on non-passport documents when establishing identity that the records will gradually become clattered with more John Does are not amenable to criminal background checks so the courts don't like it and what we've learnt over the weekend is neither does the chiefs of police. The chiefs of police ask that this provision be taken out because it limits their ability to identify who somebody is, it actually includes library cards and college IDs as well, not just the ones identified in the bill. We all received a letter from the chief of police of the Burlington police department who incidentally, he's been there two and a half years 27 years of law enforcement service in Arizona, so he's well-versed in issues related to immigration. and he says that public safety as witnesses and victims without ID will not be willing to call police report crime our safety will be harmed. It means that serious felony crimes will go unreported and all witnesses will not remain and be available to testify in court about the actions of a suspect, so we all have an interest, all of society has an interest in combating crime and for us to effectively do so what the chiefs of police are telling, what the administrative office of the court are telling is however well-intentioned this provision is, it's actually going to undermine all of our safety and that's not a good idea, so I strongly support this amendment and ask for your support. Senatore Sanderson for what purpose do you rise? Thank you Mr. President ladies and gentleman of the senate. Senator Sanderson you want to speak to the amendment? Yes speak to the amendment Mr. President, thank you. As much as appreciate the points that our two senators have brought forward. Still this amendment goes to the very heart of this bill. I think that it is under the ability and the ability that the North Carolina General Assembly has, is to make sure that when forms of ID are being used, that they meet certain criteria. When cities, and it seems to me that these are concerns are coming mostly from cities who have already entered into the process of making their own ID cards, to me I think that it needs to have clearance through this General Assembly, and that has not been done. Those cities went out on their own and entered into contracts to do this without any clearance through this General Assembly and I don't think that that's the way that we should handle immigration issues of this importance It just seems to me that the one's that are having the problems with these are not our Statewide law enforcement officers but it is these Municipalities. I have not heard from any of my Chiefs of Police and any of the Districts that I represent. I don't know how many other people have and the same

thing goes with the other IDs that our cities are offering as forms of picture or photo IDs that we need to have a uniform system in this State to know when that is acceptable and when it's not and also with the IDs that are issued by foreign governments. We have no idea what criteria they used to make sure that who they're talking about is really who they are and so I would ask you in light of that to vote against this amendment. Senator Robinson for what purpose do you rise? To ask Senator Sanderson a question. Senator Sanderson, do you yield? I do. Senator Sanderson you mean mentioned Municipalities that are having problems. Can you tell me which Municipalities or Police Chiefs those are that have indicated they're having problems in terms of the base documents. Senator Robinson I can't I don't know who they are I just I know that having been a power law enforcement officer, the thing that I want to be most concerned about is that when I go out there and somebody shows me an on that I can really believe that it is accurately portraying who that person is claiming to be. And at this point I don think that we have a you know lateral between our cities and our counties to be able to produce their own forms of photo IDs in order to qualify for this follow up Mr. Chair. Senator Sanderson do you yield for follow up? I do. Senator Sanderson, have you viewed the documents from the Greensboro police department or Burlington in terms of what they're using and the kinds of agreements they have, have you seen and have you looked at the documentation that is required, this are law enforcement people who want to protect our cities and our states extra and they were trained to do that I think that we would have some confidence in them have we looked at any of those? Senator I haven't, they haven't contacted me it would seem to me that it would be in there best interest to come to the General Assembly and to see if what they're doing will give them the clearance that they really need in order to accomplish the task they want to and I haven't seen any of them come up here and ask if its okay, for us as a police department in Burlington or police department in Greenborough to offer this kind of ID, that's a photo ID, because again, we need to be sure that the person that's on that photo is really the person that he claims to be. Senator McKissick, for what purpose do you rise? Speak on the amendment. Senator McKissick, you have the floor, speak to the amendment. I want to thank Senator Robinson for sending this amendment forward it seems to me that we should not be in a position to direct the local law enforcement agencies, the local government, what they determine to be appropriate, forms of identification for people who they may encounter, they need to have the discretion to recognize those forms of ID they think or is more inappropriate, and so those individuals can present themselves and their identity can be for whatever record purposed that may be needed, any type of police report, whatever type of complaints maybe found, or for any other purposes that may be needed. just for purposed for saying who they are. The only way this bill makes sense, is that we're going to go out there as a state, and if you're free ID's to everyone who comes up and requests one, regardless of status, otherwise this [xx] we're about to endorse and embrace, has the potential to discriminate against people who have lawful forms of ID today, that will no longer be recognized. Senator Raven, for what purpose do you rise. To speak on the amendment. Senator Raven you have the floor. Seems to me that what we want in statewide standardization because if every municipality and city can have their own, what happens when the person goes into another jurisdiction and says I got this and they say no it's not any good. To me the standardization in the bill as written is first superior to NK house. Thank you. Any further discussion or debate on the amendment senator Jackson for what purpose do you rise? To see if senator Sanderson can answer a question. Senator Sanderson do you yield? I do.  Thank Mr. President, thank you senator Sanderson, I know you've spend a lot of time on this bill, I just got a question for, I understand

what Senator Robinson is attempting to do here, because I got the letters and I've got a couple of phone calls over the weekend as well they're not from our district and I sort of pay more attention to them when they're from the district is we all do but it is from a citizen of the state, has there been any provision or or even a thought process as to how we address this issue moving forward, if we defeat this amendment and we pass this bill, has there been any type of thought process or study trying to put together on how we can address this issues with different forms of identifications?  Senator Jackson, thank you for that question, in the committee where this legislation was discussed, that was brought up and we do need to look at a way that we can do this and stay wide as senator Rabin said, to have an identification card from Greensboro and that person goes to Charlotte and it's not recognized, to have a highway patrol stop somebody in Craven county that has a photo ID from Burlington, that highway patrolman has no idea well they're not that easy, so it is something that we really need to look at but it needs to senator Jackson come under the oversight of this general assembly and not just be every municipality in every county I hear producing their own photo IDs and expecting everybody else in the state to honor those. Thank you senator Stan, thank you Mr. President. Senator Ford for what purpose do you rise? To speak to the amendment. Senator Ford you have the floor to speak to the amendment. Thank you Mr. President. Ladies and gentlemen senate I view this amendment as a public safety issue, and I was really hoping that Senator Sanderson would have provided more of a concrete answer that I could take back home to Charlotte, Mecklenburg. You see we provide such IDs, and again, it's not a driver's license. It's identification of who that person reports who they are based on the documents that are being collected. So in my community, public safety is very important I don't want to vote for something that's going to undermine the safety of my family and my neighbors. Now if we need to come back and do some legislation, I'm open to that, but not supporting this is a public safety issue for cities that are dealing with crime, think about what you are about to do. Any further discussion or debate on the amendment? Senator Apodaca, for what purpose do you arise? Speak on the amendment. Senator Apodaca you have the floor to speak to the amendment. Thank you Mr president and members I was going t be quite but Senator Ford on me to stand up here because I probably have more knowledge of public safety dealing with individuals and about anybody in this room and the former llife and the current life you know Bail bonds, bail bondsman post bonds for people that show up in court. Now I can give you numerous cases senator Ford but I'm going toi share one with you, we chased this individual for I don't know, two years finally called him in Brownsville Texas and he was heading back to the homeland in his pocket he had six different ID's with six different names and I say to you that is a public safety problem, because when we and the different names we came up with three or four different sets of felonies if that person had failed to appear, so that is the danger when you don't know who you are dealing with. Thank you. Any further discussion or debate on the amendment hearing none question for the senate is the adoption of the amendment five, all in favor vote aye, oppose will vote no, five seconds be allowed for the voting Clerk will record the vote. 17 having voted in the affirmative and 28 in the negative, amendment five fails and the bill As amended is back before the body, do we have any further discussion or debate on the bill as amended? Senator Brian for what purpose do you rise? Senator Van Dan for what purpose do you rise? To answer any questions? Senator Sanderson do you yield? Hey you.  Thank you Senator. Let's say I am a nanny, and I suspect that a four year old in

my child I may be the victim of some kind of abuse in the home. Would I have to worry about when I reported that situation to the police would I have to worry about whether or not I had an ID? Senator I would not think that you would, I think an anonymous call in this case like. that would probably handle that situation. What if I actually wanted to testify, I'm sorry, forward! Senator Sanders, do you yield for forward? I yield. I apologize Senator Sanders if I wanted to actually testify in that situation. Senator I'm not sure photo ID would be required, a city photo ID that was given out by the city that that person was living would qualify them to come into a court room and testify. Follow up? Senator Sanderson do you yield?  I yield. I just want to make sure I understand. So if I didn't have a photo ID, I would not be able to testify in that situation.  Senator, I think you would be able to testify whether you have a photo ID or did not have the photo ID.   Okay, I'm sorry I misunderstood, follow up.  Senator Senderson do you yield.   I yield.   What if I was victimized myself and did not have a photo ID and adult would I still be able to bring charges against someone who was to me or if I was a victim of a crime. Senator Van Duyn those are hypothetical situations that I can't give you an answer for. I think each situation would have to bear it's own self out, and I think it would depend on many factors and not just either the presence or the absence of photo ID. Thank you.   Senator Heiss for what purpose do you rise?   See if Senator Van Duyn will Senator Van Duyn do you yield? I do.   Senator Van Duyn are you aware of this IDs we've talked about being issued here that provides you some sort of immunity to being prosecuted for for violation of federal law? No am not.   Thank you. Do we have any further discussion or debate? Senator Meredith for what purpose do you rise? Thank you Mr president I need to change my vote on the last amendment from aye to no please. Senator Meredith changes his vote from aye to no.   Thank you. The final count was 16 to 29, senator Van Duyn for what purpose do you rise? I would like to speak on the bill. Senator Van Duyn move forward to speak to the bill I don't know about these Id's because I don't think we do this in my county but I do known as many cases of domestic violence where the victims are actually victimized because their lack of Id and I think our local enforcement, our sheriffs, our police, they know best about who the bad guys are and I think that's why we give them a little bit of latitude and I have a problem with our taking that latitude away from the people who actually do this job, so that's why I'm going to have to oppose this bill. Senator Brown, for what purpose do you rise?  Ask senator Sanderson some questions. Senator Sanderson, do you yield?  I yield.  Senator and it looks like in the bill that there are many options for ID, can you go over those because I think it's important that there are a lot of options that you can show for ID in the bill.  Thank you senator, there are you'll find those on page four, pay stub with a pays address, utility bill, a lease agreement, receipt for personal property taxes paid, receipt for real property taxes paid, monthly or quarterly financial statement from a North Carolina regulated financial institution and an unexpired North Carolina driver's license, and I think that we also have now the North Carolina ID card that is now offered through the DMV so any of those would qualify. Any further discussion or debate? Senator Jackson for what purpose do you rise? To speak on the bill.  Senator Jackson you have the floor to speak to the bill.  Thank you Mr president members I don't know like Senator Apodaca I'll use this term he used I certainly haven't been a bails bondsman or chase folks I spent many days,

hours personal dollars walking the halls in DC for many years me and a group[sp?] of others have lobbied our congress men. I haven't meet any in the last few years I have been occupied here in my own state. Trying to get immigration reform in this country and there is a pathway to citizenship in this country but it's long it's cumbersome, it's [xx] to say the least, very expensive as [xx] mentioned, but it's also nearly impossible. Most of you in here know that I farm and we use workers we use legal workers and have since the early 90's they come here on what is called a H2A program they come with a passport and is valid and a visa but that program is limited our US folks decided they didn't need so many of those here and there are certainly not enough H2A visas out there available to fulfill the work needs of this country. That's not enough to fulfill the work needs of the South Eastern United States much less this country you know we have had many bills come before us in the five years going on that I've been here, and I have always tried to keep in the back of my mind what would be right for the citizens of this state. I'm not standing up here advocating that we have irregular workers in this state, I don't think that's right, I think if they are illegal they need to go through the proper processes, but folks I want to tell you our federal government, this is a federal issue. And my concern is several,  two of them importantly is if we start in rules here in North Carolina name of who can't come in and who can and that's probably on a popular statement to say I met some of my colleagues but I mean it with all due respect. At what point and time down the road are we going to be required to show proof of identification to go in the South Carolina or Virginia or Tennessee just so we can cross into their border our federal government has failed this year folks, both Democrats and Republicans failed us miserably and they put these kind of issues on the state level when in my opinion, nothing other than some other things that we handled are more important that this immigration issue is to our federal government to get it resolved and folks I would ask that you, I'm not going to tell you how to vote on this bill. And I just want to take this time to make you think. Think about it and think is this the route we want North Carolina to take? Is this the route, we've seen if you follow any of the local news that happened several years ago in Georgia when they implemented some strick standards, there was billions of dollars of crops lost in the filed because they did not have the workers there to harvest them. We are not protecting North Carolina workers because I don't say if a man or woman is able to work in North Carolina, it might not be the job they want but there is a job out there. If your look towards what's happened in Arizona, I don't think I have to tell you that because that is probably one of the most talked about areas has been and they have Arizona and California have a unique situation there. They have day laborers. They close back falls from the boarder and since rules have been enacted in some of those states that accompany the boarder, they have lost billions and billions of dollars in crops they couldn't get harvested. So I'm asking you to think about if we're going to try and do some of this things, let's spare

some thought steady into it to a solution. Not just cutting it all fits the needs but a solution. We can all stand up and [xx], that we need to be working together to find the solution of this problem I would encourage all of you in this room and within the sound of my voice and I've heard someone joking even in China being we are on the internet, to call your U. S congressman and your U. S senate and tell them to fix this problem. Set their differences aside, and let's work for what is better for this United states we live in, and what is better for North Carolina the great state it is that we all live, but we will not be in this room as we work forward on this issue. Thank you. Do you have any further discussion or debate on the Bill as amended? Senator Brian, for what purpose do you rise? To speak on the Bill Mr. President. Senator Brian you have the floor. I want to thank our Senator Jackson for those comments and also for the humanitarian spirit in the amendment he passed that provided of several more months as it relates to the snap benefits. I've been continuing to look into this issue in terms of it impact my area since our last session as it relates to a part time job volunteer effort or job training be a mechanism for extending those benefits after initial three month period and just if any of you know about my area of state imagine how many opportunities to comply with that you will have living in Scotland [xx] North Carolina if you know where it is, or [xx], North Carolina or Hope good North Carolina, how many volunteer opportunities you are going to have,  how many 20 hour jobs are you going to have access to we've the tuition to the community college, we are not exploiting the federal job monies that we could and the job programs that we have funded at the state level have been diminishing over the years, so they are few and far between particularly in this small towns and our war areas there's no pubic transportation for this efforts. I looked in to the requirements for the voluntering component and what we could find, at least from a practical stand point on the ground is that to be qualified for  what's recognized you have to be on the list and that is an approved recognized list that D. S. S has and somebody would have to certify your hours so you have those those administrative requirements, it's not like you can just go to it and at least it should be at least 20 hours of volunteering which is significant and require someone in an agency or church to have a thought out plan around how you're going to use these level of volunteers this amount of time and then add on top of that the idea of being a sex offender, you may be lucky to get enough to get one job and somehow got laid off for reasons that were not of your own making and they are now looking for another job and with that kind of burden it is often difficult in three months to find another job, so there are just so many barriers and we are really I'm hampering and needlessly harming our poorest and most vulnerable residents when they are already down for reasons not of their own making when we could manage any abuse of these benefits in a much narrower way and I just wanted to bring that to your attention again and let you know that this volunteer requirement is not a [xx] so thank you. Senator Tillman for what purpose do you rise? Mr. President speak briefly on the bill. Senator Tillman you have the forward to speak to the bill. If you vote against this bill and Senate Jackson I understand I didn't really get which way you are going to vote, but am reading the point alliance and I do not think you very much like the bill but there is another part of this bill and if you vote against it, you are saying  well you say we do not want to do anything about it about sanctuary counties or sanctuaries cities. That's part of this bill too, and it's a very important part of the bill, so since they are together, we have a choice to make and I think it's a good bill. Any further discussion or debate on the bill as amended?

Senator Apodaca for what purpose do you rise? Speak on the bill. Senator Apodaca yo have the floor. As I sit here and listen to the debate and we go back and forth, I think there's a lot of things we need to think about. Many of us here are familiar with Doctor Johnson at UNC. In his presentation he makes on the ageing and the browning of America. and I think it's something you need to be aware of especially in this chamber really in this chamber because a lot of us are all old and a lot us are getting older and you too West and his argument is, whatever your belief is in immigration, come about 2030 we are going to need everybody we can get to help us old people get around and manage and to be able to do things. So the longer we can keep kicking the can down the road when it comes to immigration policy which we have nothing here in this chamber that we can do but some day Washington is going to have to wake up but when I look at this bill we can talk about sanctuary cities, we can talk about certain IDs but one thing we got to be cognizant of it's who is here is it's simple, the guy that used to sit in this chair had a saying if you think everybody is good you ain't met everybody. So the bottom line is to folks there are a lot of bad people out there, we saw what happened during the Carter administration with the Cuba dumping all their prisoners over here. Now I'm not saying that's going on for Mexico but there has been some talk about it, some of them sent over and some of them found, other states, other country we see what's going on in Europe. We got to be cognisant of who is in this country and until we get our boarders secured and control who is coming in and out and I think I've got a little expertise on that because as we know or many of you know my father's side of the family has lived on the boarder of Texas and Mexico for five or six generations. So going a little personal I  have some what of an Idea what the problems are on securing the border and how hard it is, all that aside, all that aside. We have got to come up with a way for people to work in this country now, it's plain and simple for Senator Jackson to hit the nail on the head he couldn't survive without that labor, my apple farmers in Henderson County go berserk over any immigration bill we talk about them here, a fist fight Senator Vandne broke out at the Farm Bureau Picnic between the different factions in Beckham County, few years back and it was dealing with [xx] things, so we might think that the answers is simple and I don't have the answer, but it's a complex situation that's going to take complex thinking. so, but what I want us to think about tonight, I shared that story with you, we have got to know who is in this country and who causes trouble, and believe me, there are trouble makers here as we saw in San Francisco Senator Tillman with that person who was arrested for killing the girl. That's the reality folks and don't kid yourselves if you don't think that can happen in North Carolina because we worked enough with the Ice officers and immigration authorities to know that can happen. So this might not be the best bill in the world but I think it's trying to deal with the problem we really need to deal with and that is knowing who's in this country. And until we fix the other things, that's what we have control over, thank you. Senator Tarte, for what purpose do you rise? To speak briefly on the bill please. Senator Tarte you have the floor As some may or may not know, my father in law was raised in tualp Mexico. My wife practiced as a pediatrician is approximately a third to halt Hispanic, she speaks fluent Spanish. There's this comment I hear Candy Ryce make about two years years ago when did the term in the word immigrant become a bad thing our whole country is founded on the whole concept of immigration but the concept I want to live you with is there is a proper way to do that, as one example my former congresswoman Sue Myrick who represented the night congressional

district and there are almost 20 years of service had 23, 000 immigrants get their legal citizenship in 20 years, 23, 000, the patients that my wife interacts with, the folks that I interact with in the Islamic community, we do a disservice to them when we circumvent the system and allow others to enter the country illegally, so this is something that I think is absolutely necessary to support as we continue to focus on this very important issue, thank you. Senator Robinson for what purpose you rise? To speak on the bill.  Senator Robinson you have the floor. Thank you Mr. President, ladies and gentlemen I've listened certainly you voted against the amendment which I've listened to, some who I feel are very sincere without the issue and I've listened to the responsibility of the federal government to do but yet what I hear is that while the federal government is not in the process and we make laws here in North Carolina that further prevent people who want to work who are law-abiding who want to be law-abiding from doing just what we say we want them to do, and what I hear what I'm reminded of, some of you may not be as old as Dan Blue bit he certainly would remember that my father, he did know him was in Georgia doing manual labor, second grade education but because he was African-American and the 1940s and 50s and early 60s was stopped on the highway and asked for an ID because of his skin color. He too worked and wanted to work and my grandmother, a native American came into this country and set up schools. My grandfather set up churches so people would have opportunities, and so it reminds me that really all of us are immigrants, I doubt very seriously if any of you are actually native Americans who were really here long time ago and somebody gave you an opportunity. Somebody gave you an opportunity even when you didn't have an ID and what I see is that the repetition of us looking at people who we feel come in here illegally and my father didn't come here illegally, he was worked harder than anybody I know but three jobs trying to support us but yet wasn't given an opportunity and my grandmother came over but what I see us creating laws rather than trying to work with people even our law enforcement officers who say they need a system where they can give the folk who what to do right an opportunity to do that without carrying additional problems and then be able to apprehend those who don't want to do right. But what I hear you're saying is you want to create laws, that would just get them all, you know the attitude, the attitude that I see here, it just makes me kind of ill, but I am not going to fall sick so don't worry about that, but if it is not what I would expect out of this general assembly, there's policy makers who actually care and some of you do care, who actually care about people in this state, care about the education, health, the economy, and who we want to be and who we are as North Carolinian's. Do we have any further discussion or debate? Senator Rabin, for what purpose do you rise? Ask the Bill sponsor a question please.  Senator Sanderson, do you yield? I yield. Is there anything in the Bill that I missed that precludes folks who are here illegally from getting this ID.  No. Thank you. Any further questions or debate, hearing none question for the senate is the passage of the senate community substitute house bill 318 as amended on its third reading.

All in favor vote aye. Opposed will vote no. Five seconds will be allowed for the voting. The Clerk will record the vote. Apodaca, aye 28 having voted in the affirmative, and 17 in the negative, Sub committee substitute to house bill 318 as amendment, passes its third reading, the amendment will be  engross is sent to the house for concurrence in the Senate community substitute. House bill 272,  Clerk will read . House bill 272,  Appointments bill 2015. Senator Burger is recognized. Thank you Mr. President, members this is a conference report on the appointments bill, there are two changes from the bill that went over to the house. One is a change in individual that's appointed for the principle fellows program and the second is a modification of the county of residents of an appointee to the North Carolina Rail-road. Those are the only two changes I'll be more than happy to try to answer any questions. We have any discussion or debate? hearing none, question for the senate is the motion to adapt the conference report for house bill 272 of favor vote aye oppose vote no, five seconds bill after the voting, clerk will record the vote Lee aye. 45 having voted the affirmative and 0 in the negative, the senate does adopt the conference report for house bill 272 and the house will be notified and I think that wraps up our calendar for this evening is that right Madame Clerk? That wraps up our calendar for this evening. At this time we would like to ask our pages, who have been so patient with us tonight to make your way around to the front here in your order, and once you get around front, clerk will read. Pagers  serving in the chamber this week, Ashton Blackburn, by this corner. Natalie [xx], Anna Gilian, Bennett. Sarah Haits, by this corner.   [xx] Hope, window.  [ XX ] McRole[sp?], Capital hill.  Jasmine McNeil Rolley, Joshua Miller, Rolley.  Katenen Miller Rolley,  Savana   [xx]. Mary Smith Asborough, Andrew Short [xx].  Calton Ending Riley. Pagers we thank you for sacrificing time out of your week to join us in the senate and service here, we hope you have a great week and we really appreciate you being here, thank you so much. do we have any notices or announcements? Senator Apodaca for what purpose do you rise?  Mr. president I have an announcement and then a moment of personal privilege. You have the floor for both Senator. Thank you Mr. President and members as we wind down this session, we are going to have another phenomenal rose meeting tomorrow at 10 o'clock so I ask everybody on the rose committee to please be there, this calendar is going out tonight and it's not a lot of bills on it, that's good news and we ought to be in pretty good shape. If I might Mr. President, a moment of personal privilege? I would like to thank Senator Stam my good friend for bringing up wayhardtab[sp?] and while he was talking we had an opportunity to do a little further investigation and one thing the good Senator forgot to mention the way I tell North Carolina had one of the largest jobs of anyone in the United States in school system quality, amazing. We jump from 24 or to 21 so I think we are going on the right direction and I want to thank Senator Stam for bringing that to our attention. Any other notices or announcements? If you have any other business come before the senate, now the Chair recognizes Senator Berger for a motion. Thank you Mr. President just a statement before, members we sent an adjournment resolution over to the house that called for other session to end tomorrow.

I don't know exactly what the house is going to do with that so tomorrow may very well be a pretty long day so we are going to adjourn to come back tomorrow morning at 9:30, that's going to be a skeleton session and we will not take any votes until 11 o'clock. As Senator Apodaca has indicated we'll have rules committee meeting tomorrow morning we may end up having to have another meeting to do with technical corrections bill but all that is still somewhere up in the air, this time I would just ask you to keep an eye on your emails, it's entirely possible that tomorrow we'll be here until after midnight to finish things up sometime in the early hours of Wednesday morning. So hopefully we'll finish tomorrow but it may be that it will take a little longer than that with that Mr president, I move that the senate be now adorned subject to the standard stipulations sent fourth in senate rule 24.1 the ratification of bill, the appointment of conferees the receive conference support and the receive of house messages to convene on Tuesday, September, 29 20015 at 9:30 AM the senator now adjourns due to the situation by senator Burger by Tuesday September 29th 9;30 AM seconded by senator all favorites as say I Opposed no. The ayes have it. The Senate's adjourned.