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House | July 16, 2015 | Committee Room | Finance Committee

Full MP3 Audio File

And I thank our sergeant at arms Mr. Sails[sp?], Mr. Lee, Mr. Caw, Mr. McPickbay, Mr. Lighten and Mr. Lengthen, thank you for being here. At this time we will have house bill 169, Representative Collins moves to have the PCS before us for discussion on favor say aye? All opposed? Representative Hager who was here who has disappeared. Representative Hager, present your bill. [xx] came through commerce about a couple of months ago we wanted to hold it to make some changes in it but [xx] commercial we made the changes that allow the implementation over a number of years of reduction of emissions testing in these counties listed there we had we had the Grambol County if I'm not mistaken. Basically what this will do will slowly phase out emissions testings in these counties that you see and one of the reasons is we've had a great reduction of sucks, knocks, emissions, mercury emissions, pretty much all the emissions these test for due to most of the power plants in the area such as Cliffside 1-4 in my district drop going to actually phasing the old systems out or moving the old ones to natural gas so we feel like these [xx] is no longer needed in these areas it's not mandated by the clean air implementation, it was just the extra phase of what we were doing in North Carolina. Is there any question Mr. Chairman? Representative Collins.  Just brief comment, Mr. Chairman having gone to the gentleman who does my emission inspections back in Nash County and talked with him about the process and although I've never had personally had a problem with it I ask him, I did like him at one time, it indicated emissions but I didn't ask him. What will happen if you can't fix this? He said you either have to get it within regulation or you have to proove that you spent $200 trying to get it into regulation in which case they'll exempt you from it, so it sounds like to me it's more of a racket than anything else so at the appropriate time I'll be happy to make a motion. Representative Martin.  Thank you Mr. Chair, I'm just trying to make sure that I understand that there are stilll some counties that do require this and how is the selection made of why or some on the list did not and some continue Mr. Chairman. Please, thank you. Due to cleanup implementation a couple of decades ago you had the areas of the congestors such as Mecklenburg county is a good example of that. in some of the surrounding county around them are required to do that. This was of course impotent and Steph will be better at this than I would. This is predicated the emissions, violations a certain monitors in the areas and all of that, since we've not seen any emissions of violations in a number of years plus the the amount of kocks surg, Markery all these other pullings put in there have greatly decreased, you can greatly decrease that circumference around those areas. Representative Adams Thank you Mr. Chairman, just quickly looking at this in the summary said that the proposed committee substitute will eliminate the following counties including Catawba and then I when I go to the bill, I see Catawba and others have been stricken, which is it? Mr. Chairman. Please. Thank you. If you read the bill it removes those counties from emissions testings, the ones that have been stricken. Thank you. Further questions from the committee? Excuse me, Representative Meyer, forgive me. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a question for staff and then maybe a couple of questions for someone from the Division of Air Quality if they're here. Can I start with the staff Mr. Chair? Please. Staff, I wonder if there's any fiscal impact on this to the counties that will be taken out or to the municipalities in those counties? Mr. Chair, Jennifer Hawkin with Fiscal Research. The feed does not go to the counties, it goes to DOT Air Quality and then the inspection stations themselves say there is no impact on the local municipalities. Thank you. Mr. Chair, can I ask if there is anyone here from the Division of Air Quality to answer a couple of questions? Is there anyone in the public that can, yes Ma'am. Please approach the podium and state your name for the record Thank Mr. Chairman Good morning my name is Shella Hormane I'm the director of division air quality and [xx] Thank you Miss Hormane Mr. Chairman I'm curious Miss Hormane when was the the last code orange air day we had in North Carolina. That would have been I believe June 25th of this year we had an [xx] st. Monica and sharlig two existences and for [xx] follow up. That you Mr. Chairman I'm worried a little bit about the overall impact of this on the entire state because I don't necessary believe that air quality is limited to county borders but I think the other question I have for you Mum is in the report that the division air quality made that lead to

some of this recommendations some of this kind of stricken out, does your recommend this specific counties all of this counties were you consulted in creating this list of counties or is their any discrepancy between your report what's in this bill. I have just quickly looked under the PCS I do not believe their are any discrepancies between the list of recommend that counties were elimination from the program compared our report I think it's consistent with report. Ok thank you and just one final comment, Follow up yes sir I think that given that we are still struggling figuring out what to do about the problem of green house gas emotions overall problem of global warming and it's a crisis that we can't solve over the North Carolina level but it's something that we can't ignore. I'm perplexed because I understand the point of what's changing in emissions quality is we've changed what our cars do and we changed as Representative Hager said about what's happening with the emissions from our power plants is our air quality is changing, but I'm reluctant to move ahead with removing this many counties from the Emissions Program at this time and I'm also curious Mr. Chairman if you'd be willing to accept a motion to move this, but then we refer it to a the committee on environment because I don't think it have been reviewed by that committee, I like to see it go there before goes to the floor. Representative Collins already have the motion on the floor but at this point, substitute motion Mr. Chairman if you like we'll see if the committee approves it, we want to be fair. Any further questions or comments from the, Representative Jones. Thank you Mr. Chairman. Representative Hager I just want to ask you would you have a problem if I put forth an amendment to include Rockinham county in that list that is  on the list of counties covered on line 25 and Rockinham isn't on Rowan County Thank you Mr. Jones I would welcome that if you yes I would, but you can [xx] and I'll thank you. Mr. Chairman Yes sir. There would be a simple amendment, could I be recognized for such an amendment just to strike the one word Yes sir, unless it goes in the ways, and then will go for [xx] proceed if you have an amendment   Thank you Mr. Chairman and if I may, I would like to move to amend on line 25, page one of the bill that we extract through Rockingham and include Rockingham county on this list. Members of the committee, you've had the motion on the floor, any further discussion or debate? All in favor say aye.  Aye.  All opposed. No. Thank you. Representative Luebkey. Thank you Mr. Chairman and I apologize for being late, caught up in traffic and is probably a lot of vehicle emissions, that all of that is the result of the traffic jam. But I do want to ask a question on the bill sponsors and if it's already been covered, I apologize. But if you would for me, answer the following question. Does any pollution recurring in Cleveland County for example now carry over in Mecklenburg County? Representative Hager. Thank you Mr. Chairman. Representative Luebkey, I think you know we all know the air travels wherever it travels, the high pressure, low pressure, low pressure, high pressure whatever it takes, but the extent of this program was really put in place was about certain pollutants and their concentrations in urban areas. This program actually went out and was in phases, and now that we're not seeing those issues now that we're seeing actually pollutants decrease in North Carolina due to natural gas in plantation, less coal burning, all those things, better car emissions, all those things, these are not needed. Now this is to Representative Martin, in your thinking it may be OK and if you guys want to keep that for your citizens you go ahead and keep that, but in my citizens these urban counties, rural counties we're talking about, we'd like to give them a little bit of break when it's not needed. If you want to continue to add costs on to your citizens then I think you're more than willing do that, you represent your 80, 000, 85, 000 citizens, but most of the folks in here would like to see it not on their citizens, give their citizens a little bit of relief when it's not needed, when it's redundant, when it's not essential. Follow up Mr. Chairman. Follow up. Well Representative Hager and well since Representative Presnell  you really haven't answered my question, because the issue really is whether provision is one of the currently less avenue counties carries over into the urban counties so that is a matter of public health. I look at quickly going

over into Mecklenburg county, I would say that Chartom county pollution Wake county and this are highly urban areas and provision doesn't stop at the county line. The sign and has nothing to do with where the pollution goes, so it's hard for me to prove it's not a question of putting an ordinate burden on the citizens it's a question of saying that it's a public concern, and that's why we have these regulation just why the Federal government put them on in first place, why would  you really want to keep is gone you know that to carry on Mecklenburg county and in Wake county. Mr. Chairman. Representative Hager. May I answer that question again. Representative Leuwkey as I said this program will set up we're talking about the program now, we're not talking about whether your cooperate in Wake county where you do that, thank you for the drive also. It's about the program that was set up to continue to not have airy mission issues. I think particularly not issues in the urban areas, that's no longer an issue.  That's why we want to resend this program and get it back to what it is. If it becomes an issue and we can continue to expand it, if that's so being what the next legislature wants to do. It's about what the program was designed to do and is about what we're doing in fact that's not needed now. Follow up. Well, just to say that's not persuasive to me in turn the impact on Mecklenburg or Wake or any other urban county that is adjacent to one of the less urban counties and I appreciate your answer but I just don't agree. Thank you Representative Luewkey, I'm not surprised. Representative Collins.  Just a comment, anybody who understands the basics of science understands that air or liquid or anything or any other medium tend to travel from a region of hot concentration to a region of low concentration not vice versa, so this congested like Mecklenburg and Riley, their pollution is going to rule counties around them, the pollution from Franklin county or some county that is not densely populated next to Wade county is not somehow rather moving itself into the already highly concentrated of Wade county is the exact opposite so the argument we just had is completely [xx]. Representative Warren. Thank you Mr. Chair question for the bill sponsor. Representative Hager, am I understanding this correctly that you're proposing to remove these counties form the inspection process due to the fact that the current history of equality is indicated a consistent improvement and a reduction in the importance of the quality it's an improvement of the quality. Additionally you sight improvements in industrial technology which helps proof that situation and today Automobiles have warning signals that tell you when they're faulty, so you don't need the periodic schedules, is that correct? Thank you representative Warren, when I was looking at the technical pieces I looked at Hertford county and due to the retirement of Cliffside one through four which was getting car bring plants and the oldest plants was built in the 30s and 40s in the apartment polluting plants. In the addition set Kelly Clark and SCR in and a scrubber, on the cliff-side five and the cliff-side six. You could do  away with the emissions issue on Hertford county and still have improved air quality about a hundred times, over the watch continues to the body didn't matter was the mean score compared to the improvements that we've already made just within Hertford county. Representative Adam. Thank you Mr. Chairman, just to echo Representative Collins comment. I served on the  Unifo required committee on Catawba county I served on the 1998 Environmental Summit, Mecklenberg County. The real contributors for air quality problems all the major metropolitan areas, and in Catawba County in the Catawba Valley area, we figured out a way of reducing and improving our airquality considerably, we got rid of our industry. Not voluntarily. Not voluntarily, that's correct. And we saw quite an improvement not only of air quality but I think that counties like ours are not the offenders, and if you really want to do something about global warming we need to get rid of heat problems[sp?], thank you. Representative Brawley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciated Representative Luebke's concern from Mecklenburg County. I've been involved with air quality issues there quite a lot but Representative Hager, I did want to tell you I'm not aware of anyone in Mecklenburg County that holds Rutherford County especially[sp?] the rural portion responsible for our poor air quality, thank you. Representative Brawley, I would

take an amendment to not allow cars in Wake and Mecklenburg Counties if that's OK. Out of order! Out of order Representative Stam I leave on the western edge of Wake county near Cheatham and through economic reasons Cheatham is losing it's farms and chicken processing and half farms and we appreciate the clean air that's coming from Cheatham. We're not afraid of the reputation it's better than we have. Thank you, representative Hyde, I'm glad you like, thank you, thank you Mr Chair, well are going to ask is, is there a reason? I might have missed it from the introduction, why this particular county is think they will not talk him out Wake or Maker anybody like that? Representative Lee, just say due to the clear emissions standards there are certain areas that all that seem that have the monitors that is half to have this issue, so we kept those and we looked at it, I think in front of third tier counties that are comitted in the third phase and back they will be the first one's to roll back, and if we continue to seek the more clean air then we will look at other counties and see what we can do. for procedural purposes, Rep. Collins you're recognized for a motion.  I'd like to move that we give a favorable report to propose committee substitute for house bill 169 and favorable to the original.  Mr. Chairman Representative Yes Procedural issue. We had a substitute motion  I wasn't finished, I was going to representative Meyers. Rep. Meyers you're recognized for a substitute motion. Thank you Mr. Chairman. I would like to make a substitute motion to give a favorable report from the house finance committee on the PCS bills 169 with a re-referral to the house committee on environment As amended? As amended. Any further discussion or debate on the county Rep. Collins as the original motion sponsor I would ask that you desist the substitute motion please.  Rep. Hagger Thank you Mr. Chairman, I would ask the same as Rep. Collins. This bill through commerce is being held around for three months. Matter of fact I held it just for us so folks could talk about and get to with their issues. It's been out there for months now and I've heard a lot of push back on my factory, a lot of positive aspects on it so I'd ask for you to defeat the motion [xx] senate will shut their committees down in a week or so, we just need to get this bill moving through the floor, it doesn't need another stop. Member of the committee you've heard the discussion. All in favor of the substitute motion raise your hand. All opposed? The motion fails, Representative Collins you're recognized for original motion. My motion again is favorable report for proposed committee substitute for House Bill 169 unfavorable to the original. Members of the committee you've heard the motion on the floor, all in favor say aye, Aye! All opposed, no. Motion carried, thank you. And we appreciate that very simple little bill. I would like to make a correction regarding the pages. Mr. Anderson Ford I identified you incorrectly before we'd like to thank you for being with us here today, and at this time we'd like to recognize Chairman Ted Davis of the Subcommittee on Occupancy Tax for report. Thank you Mr. Chairman, the The tax subcommittee met this morning and we consider Senate Bill 50, the Wilson County Occupancy tax Modification, and also House Bill 531, the Increase/Modify Goldsboro Occupancy Tax. Both were found to be in compliance with the House guidelines for occupancy tax legislation, and both received a favorable report. Calendar, thank you. At this time we will have the PCS for House Bill 912, Representative Stein will be carrying that bill, Representative Schaffer moves to have the PCS before us for discussion all in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed, motion carried, thank you. Thank you Mr. Chairman. I appreciate that, I give you a little background on this bill house bill 912 which is exclusive taxing authority of Cherokee. The Cherokee Indian reservation is located in Swain, Jackson, Haywood, Graham and Cherokee counties. Currently this counties are collecting business property taxes on none Indian owned businesses located on the reservation, and having the pass have attempted to collect [xx] taxes on none natives. These counties provide little services to business, governmental or residential entities on the reservations in exchange for the taxes being collected. Now water, trash, roads, police camps, all legislative members representative of five counties encompassing with the chair key in reservation are in support of this legislation. I'd like to remind you that 40% if the Eastern chair key members live off the reservation with half those living in surrounding counties and they pay income and property taxes. House bill 912 prevents counties from collecting taxes on travel trust lands and unable to chair key travel government to implement its own tax code for the purpose of funding vital government services. House bill 912 represents an important

measure in the built it to promote economic development and continue to exercise his travel parity. House bill 912 is also consistent and supported by the US pinpoint decisions addressing that counties authority to levy taxes on travel lands. Additionally house bill 912 allows a chair key to enter into an agreement with the states somewhat to the existing agreement, with the department of revenue to be reimbursed to the collection of field taxes on its members. This legislation merely extends that authority to tobacco products. The eastern band Cherokee is not looking to tax at a lower rate than the state, but rather have as a state provide they used to manage key management with the accurate amount of taxes collected from tobacco products sold on their lands. It's also important to note that for native children attending county public schools supplemental income in the form of federal impact $8 is provided those school systems an excess of $2 million annually. Jackson gets 750, 000, Swain[sp?] 1.4 million additionally the instrumented chair key pays 100% of all school lunches for Cherokee Children attending county public schools less to about $130, 000. So I present that to you, the bill is pretty straight forward. We've spent a good portion of this session working with the Department of Revenue to make sure that we have the language correct and make sure that we've addressed any concerns that they have., if you still have any questions Mr. Chairman? Representative Jeter. Move for approval of the PCS of 9/12 Unfavorable to the original. Thank you, Representative Collins. Just have a question, this may be staff. It looks like we're dealing with two different things here, some are state taxes, and some are local taxes, so I'm wondering how much this is going to cost the state and the counties involved in relation to what we're currently doing. Mr. Beasel. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Rodney Bizzell, Fiscal Research. On the property tax issue, I've just talked to a couple of the county managers. Twain County indicated a loss of $60, 000 and Jackson County 88, 000, those two counties have probably the larger impacts. I know Cherokee County has the prospect of collecting taxes from some hotel properties that would be built near a casino but we do not know the impact of the other counties yet for the property tax. I would say the County Commissioner of Associations represented here, they may have more information on that. On the State taxes, the excise taxes we don't have an estimate on that Follow up. Yeah, I'm still not having an estimate. I mean is that a million, or a billion or a hundred thousand no estimate at all I feel kind of squeamish voting about something where I have no clue what fiscal ramifications it will have on our State, but I was wondering also if we have anybody here from maybe one of those counties so we if we know how those counties feel about this issue. Is there anyone here from the County Commissioners Association? Thank you Mr. Chairman and thank you Representative Collins we have contacted the county managers and in several counties and they share with us some of the services they do provide and apologize they don't have dollar figures but they do very somewhere from county to county but some of the big things that they do provide the non tribal residence in the county send those children to the county schools even if property that the owner of the majority the property that they own on the tribal lands and if a non tribal member is arrested on tribal lands and housed in the county jail I'm responsible for feeding them in if need for medical care and the county is to provide and a medical care and some of the counties do provide environmental health services on the tribal lands is to the firm and non tribal them into less drives for example non tribal land and the health inspections are done by the county so I'd say those are the biggest types of services, thank you. Thank you. Further questions from the committee?  If not Representative Jeter in recent looking. I'm happy that Representative Collins and I just on concern today and that is the question that you raised about the revenue impact and staff is giving us a number and some of them and I have a couple of questions but in first Representative was saying the Representative from county commissioner says that there are services provided and I thought I heard you saying in your remarks that no services will be provided. No it's about minimal if at all and I also counted that there is also the police force that is provided by check there, so we can go back and forth on every little service but there is a police force provided so there is little both for each. Follow up. Thank you Mr. Chairman so there really are a few services that are provided so the question does come up about whether the counties

are in fact entitled to have property tax on these properties, I guess my question is here on the counties themselves have they told you that they are in support of this bill? Do you have resolutions of support from the county commissioners or do you have Sir I do not, we have support of the legislative members representative in five counties. If I may follow deliberate but you don't have support from the you don't indicate that you have any support from the affected counties and this is a problem that we've seen before where with all respect a bill has been put in where the affected counties are not in agreement and I just wondered what you thought of that as policy. Well as  policy I think it's counties not created by the legislature their authorities, if I ask I am not so certain that they always will agree with the reaction that we take here as a legislature and I'm not so sure that's happened in the past and I'm not sure that's going to happen in the future this may be well it seems we agree to disagree. Representative Hager? Thank you Mr. Chairman an example funny that representative Luebke ran the bill a couple of weeks here he didn't care what the county thinks now suddenly he does so I'm looking at this issue Cherokee and if you look at what's Cherokee a nation has done for West North Carolina you look at what they've done for their people, you look at the police force you look at the number one, you look at the schools that they have to build themselves you look at what they've done for their people within their travel area, I think they deserve to have this to tax within their travel the way they think they need to and be truthful with you. They have bit the bullet and spent there money and done the right thing for their people and have been an asset for West North Carolina and I know the representative that represents that area I think the Roger Westrop represents that area agrees with this bill it's his area he is the one that has to deal with the county commissions and deal with with the city council this area. I think it's a good bill Mr. Chairman and I support the motion. Thank you Representative. Broody Thank you Mr. Chairman, this is actually one of the more interesting bills that we could have and looking at this one of the first things I realize is that the Chair key tribe has a status that I think the city of Shollen frequently wishes to aspire to have. It is surrounded by North Carolina but it's not part of it. And that's really brought out because line 22 on the first page of the bill it says talks about the congress in courts and recognize the Eastern band of Chucky into its possessions when legal rights over their members and trust lands this is like we are dealing with another country that is completely surrounded by North Carolina we have hard that the counties are levying taxes on people on tribal lands renting tribal lands operating businesses who are not members of the Cherokee nation. The services they provide is if the Cherokee arrests you they give you back to North Carolina in courts rather than keep you in tribal jails and courts we call that extra territoriality that is what we negotiate for our troops in every nation where we station troops the Japaneses don't get to try our soldiers we try them for the crimes they commit in Japan. They are doing restaurant inspection on restaurants operated by none tribal members on properties leased from the tribe the question here is should they even be doing this or shouldn't the tribe be inspecting the restaurant on tribal lands and should they we just asked them to go ahead and handle, they're willing to give us back our citizens for us to try when they brake the law, I'm fine with that, but this situation is essentially what we would have for US troops with every four nation where we station them it recognizes that the chair key have a special legal status separate and a part from any other conty government and counties do not have the right to enforce their authority on [xx] other nations we're just recognizing that. Representative Moore. I was saying that I wanted to expound Representative Hager and Brawley's already said it but back to the question of the county commissioners very quickly Representative Zane and just say I support this bill and I plan to support it. I like the node, just because you don't have a resolution of support doesn't mean that they oppose it or tell me, let's kind

of clear that up because I've heard [xx] on back and forth [xx] Mr. Chairman if I may. Thank you representative Moore, I just really don't know. I've heard from anyone from the county commission, that doesn't mean that they agree or disagree and I don't want to speak for them, I think logic wil dictate that if you're losing some money from your county you'll probably be opposed to it, that makes a lot of sense, but also, they also may support the it's a Cherokee nation so we can assume a lot of things so we just don't know or haven't heard, thank you. Representative Collins. Well I certainly support the certainty of the Cherokee nation and understand that but it's a little bit different and I appreciate Rep. Brawley's comments, but it's a little bit different from foreign countries that we don't surround. I notice Francis that we are already refunding the motor fuel taxes and yet I assume we're still maintaining the state highways and roads that run through there. serve our nation. So it's kind of a tricky situation. Again are we eliminating taxes without eliminating services but on the state and local level. I'm not sure and that gives me a little bit of heartburn. Representative Stam.  I support the bill but I would take a little bit of issue with the analyses. Cherokee Nation is not like Japan or France or Germany. We had this same debate compact. They are referred to in laws a domestic [xx] nation. My green light is on, but nobody can hear me. Reminds me the time when Jim Black turned off my red light and said I voted no too many times. When Cherokee serve in the army, they serve in the United States army they don't serve in the Cherokee army. It's not the same although I support the bill. Representative further comments requesting committee. Representative Jeter you're recognized for your motion. Move for favorable report to the PCS from 912 unfavorable to the original Members of the committee you've heard the motion on the floor any further discussion on debate if not all in favor say aye, all opposed motion carried.  Thank you Mr. Chairman. Thank you. At this time we'll have Senate bill 50, Representative Martin Representative Collins to have the PCS before us for discussion, all in favor say aye, all opposed, the bill is [xx] representative Martin. Thank you Mr. Chair and thank you members for hearing this occupancy tax bill it is very straight forward it went to the meet all the guidelines. I do have resolutions from the county and the city to support it, it has full biporesence support from the delegate representative former Battlefield was not able to be here this morning he's trying to get in. Senator Brian is here and we have senator Bathneie so we work together with the county to come up with this solution and I would appreciate your support, answer if any questions. Further discussion Representative Davis. Mr. Chair if I may, I'd like to read an email that I received this morning and ask the bill sponsor a question. Proceed. Thank you Mr. Chairman, this is an email that I received, a copy from Julie Patel that was sent to Representative Martin as well as other legislators. It says in our meeting with senator, representatives, Wilson County Commissioners, and board members from TDA and hotelier there was an agreement how the additional tax increase would be spent. Hotelier would support increase in tax from 3 to 6%, if and only 2/3 from the additional 3% collected would go to the City of Wilson specifically for the Gillette Complex Capital Projects only. I did not see any mention this on additional one, two, or three, this leaves grand openings for city and county to spend money else where which we do not support. Currently Senate Bill is not what the hoteliers supported in the meeting, and our humble request to revise SB 52 at following on the second page starting line 14 to read, 2% proceeds from additional 3% to go toward Gillette Complex Capital projects only as agreed by hoteliers and everyone in the meeting signed by Julie Patel. My question would be, and I raised this on the subcommittee meeting, have you spoken with Mr. Patel about his concerns and opposition to the bill as it now stands? Thank you for your question. Yes we spoke this morning by phone and this same exact bill that we have before us passed the House last session, went to the Senate and issues were raised and it did not move. So there was a lot of

work where we came together to have discussion in the community that was driven really by the tourism board. As you know there's request that we have in there would not comply with our guidelines so that came forward and we're just not able to satisfy every interest but a community as a whole agrees and support this approach so I'll let him know that he going after what drives tourism in Wilson County is our Gillette Sports Complex and we could prefer to have something that doesn't meet the guidelines that says we could put more to capital and we could put more specifically and say this is what we want to market. However, the community agrees that, that's what drives tourism so the fact that it's going through the tourism board will not support that. It's just that we're not dictating it because our guidelines don't allow us to do that so it's more of an understanding amongst yes the city council, the county commissioners and tourism all agree that, that is the project that is going to support tourism and we would rather put it in writing because who knows who'll be there next year representing the different areas, but we have to trust that we elect members of the board who will drive tourism. So he would like to see it in writing and we don't allow that. So I heard that conversation with them and said we will pass this version that comprises of all guidelines, and it's a PCS different from the senate it's going to go back and it may very well wind up in conference, it will not be able to satisfy all of his specific needs but that does not represent a group of royalty community of county commissioners, citizens and all interested parties. but I did speak with him and he understands where we are, and I said, I might not be able to give you everything the hoteliers want, but this is what's best for the community. So there's still they're very broad support for the bill Thank you, thank you Miss Toon[sp?] Thank you any further discussion on the debate Representative Luebke. Thank you Mr. Chairman and Representative Martin when these guidelines well, I just want to ask you which you are talking about the guidelines that were set up by the house finance commitee for the subcommittee on [xx] taxes is that correct? Yes and I think if you look in your bill summary will point to some of these guidelines and I have a copy assistance 1983 the general assembly authorized with it, that was for, may be I deferred to staff in that train next to it the questions about the guideline. Miss Toon[sp?] Representative Martin is correct the summary points out that, I think it was in the mid to late 90s summary refers to 1993 the finance committee established the guidelines and there's a summary of those guidelines on the last page of the summary and this bill as currently drafted does conform to those and I believe those are the guidelines she was referring to. Follow up my question was in support of your bill, because I was chair of the House Finance Committee when we established this subcommittee to use those guidelines as the basis to which to decide whether to recommend or not recommend, so I was just checking that, when you said our guidelines your reference was to the guideline for this subcommittee.  Yes thank and I do think there should be some ways for a local bill to make some sense of if this is in fact meeting the spirit of the guidelines of tourism but it doesnt exactly fall into this because we've a lot out there today, a lot of occupancy tax statutes in place that don't meet these guidelines, and so you've exceptions all over the places just moving forward we've tried to comply with them, and so we will see how we wind up when we go to conference, there's something makes more sense, but right now we are in full compliance, thank you. Any further discussion or debate? Representative Jeter For a motion. You're recognized for a motion. Move for a favorable report to the PCS for senate bill 50 unfavorable to the original. Members of the committee you've heard the motion on the floor, any further discussion or debate? If not all in favor say aye! Aye. All opposed? No motion carried. Thank you. Thank you we will now have House bill 531 Representative Bale. Representative Moore moves to have the PCS for house bill 531 before us for discussion all in favor say aye? Aye. All opposed? Motion Carried, thank you. Representative Bale. Be sure to this [xx] bill House bill 531 will establish a occupancy tax a 1% occupancy tax for Wayne County which will go to promote travel and tourism, not just for the agricultural sector that we're process of construction but for all of Warren county, currently the party is involved is a perfect example of a public private partnership from our federal delegations, state delegations, local city delegation, Kay delegation, [xx] Warren County Chamber, Warren County Travel and Tourism, Art Culture community and yes representative Luci upon request I do have resolutions back at office, and I can't generate the support of all these. Thank you. [xx] hear all that any discussion or debate from the committee?

Representative Collins. Excuse me. [xx] Just a motion for a favorable You're recognized. Mr. Chairman motion for the favorable report for the proposed committee substitute unfavorable as to the original. Thank you representative [xx] for members of the committee you've heard the motion on the floor, any further discussion or debate. If not all in favor say aye. AYe. All opposed, motion carried. Thank you Thank you members of the committee we appreciate your patience this meeting is adjourned.