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House | June 17, 2014 | Committee Room | Transportation Appropriation

Full MP3 Audio File

Okay, committee members, let's take our seats. We do have a quorum and the Transportation Committee is now in session. I want to welcome our pages and our sergeants-at-arms. Pages today are Claire Kelly, just stand and raise your hand. Chowan County, sponsored by Representative Steinburg. Ivy Floyd, Robeson County, Representative Ken Waddell. Connor Christian, welcome Connor, Pitt County, Representative Brian Brown. Jacob Richtman from Buncombe County, Representative Tim Moffitt. And Julia von Jones from Davie County, Representative Julia Howard. Welcome. And Sergeant-at-Arms, we want to thank you for your service today. We have Bill Bass and Warren Hawkins, Martha Parish on the back door and Joe Crook. Did I get everybody? Okay, ladies and gentlemen, we have four bills on the agenda today. We have a sign-up sheet and I believe, the opportunity was given in the last few minutes to sign up and the only persons who've signed up are on House Bill 1145. There are three people and we'll manage that when we get to that bill. We're going to take them in order and the first bill is House Bill 1097. Is Representative Torbett in the room? Okay, we'll temporarily displace that bill until Representative Torbett can get here. We'll go right into House Bill 1145. Representative Shepard, and we will have comments after the presentation. Representative Shepard, you're recognized. Representative Brown can be recognized also. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, very much. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen of the committee. This is the bill we looked at last time somewhat and then we pulled back and made some changes to the bill. Since that time, since last year, we've been inundated with a lot of complaints and situations, incidents and problems with mopeds. And so we chose to draft another bill that we hoped would be a start to doing something that would be good in the interests of the citizens of the state of North Carolina. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Shepard, let me interrupt you a moment to get a motion to have the PCS before us. Motion by Brawley, seconded by Jeter. All in favor say aye. Thank you. You're recognized once again. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] With that being said and done, basically what this bill does, it would require if you own a moped, that you have plates and registration if you're going to drive it on the highway. It also would require that you have liability insurance to cover you. At this present time, there are no plates and registration on mopeds. We really don't have a good way to get specific data or to find out how many accidents or incidents they are involved in because we have nothing to back it up. Also, there is no insurance. I talked with a lady last week that was in an incident where a moped hit the side of her car. And after the incident report and the accident report with the police, the moped had no insurance. So basically what this does would require them to get insurance. Liability insurance, bodily injury and property damage insurance. And Ray Evans with the rate bureau gave us a quote on some numbers on basic insurance for mopeds and it would run you about $65 a year just to have the liability. Which I think is only fair. If you're going to drive on the highways, I think you should have insurance because it's not fair for the innocent people that are involved incidents and accidents with them to pay the full price for the insurance. There's a good support for this bill. Also, the North Carolina Agriculture Grange Commission. Last week I went to a meeting with them, they support this. The League of Municipalities support this. The Police Chiefs Association for the State of North Carolina support it. And many of our citizens support it. Many of you have a pass out that we put on your table. That was at Carolina Beach a few weeks ago. I don't know if you saw it or not. The lady on a moped pulled in front of a lady in truck and she hit her. The moped got caught underneath the truck, threw the moped driver off into the intersection. The moped exploded, the truck exploded. No insurance, no coverage. So I believe this is a starting point. It's something we need to address. There are mopeds all over our highways, on our busiest streets. And I defend their right to be there...

This is a way to get to work and back. It will not require them to get a driver’s license. It will require them to get insurance and to get plates and registration on those mopeds. It may not solve all those situations and problems with them, but it’s a starting point. Also in this bill is a study portion that we put in cooperation with Mr. Kelly of the DMV which basically would study the effects of what we’ve done here. We’d come back to the joint oversight committee of transportation to see if we might need to something further with mopeds in regards to that. With that, I’m going to ask Rep. Brown to also share some facts and figures that she has. We have also some people in the session here to speak. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you. I don’t know about you, but I get a complaint on mopeds at least once a month and I have for the last four years. Rep. Stein. Just a few stats, as you consider this bill. DNT says they’ve seen nearly a 290% increase in the number of motor scooter crashes in the last ten years. That was between 2003 and 2012. Over the past years, there have been 5,500 moped crashes, 155 of them someone died. 841 of them reported crashes with a motor vehicle and a moped. That’s what I get the most push back on of is that the fact that they are running into people. They are doing damage to their personal property. They have no insurance. A lot of times we don’t even know who these people are because of course there’s no registration. I really hope you’ll consider this. Consider the people of this state. The vast majority of them do not drive scooters. The vast majority of them would like to see some kind of regulation put on them. And, as Rep. Shepard said, we have absolutely no interest in asking for driver’s license. We know that that is the way. If you’ve had your license taken away for a DUI, that’s really the only way many folks can take to get to work. We certainly don’t want to take away their ability to make a new start and contribute to this state. We just appreciate your vote and we are going to wait. We’ve got folks that want to speak on this bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Committee questions. Just a moment. Okay, the sponsors. Okay. Rep. Stone? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Speaker. Being picked first may not be the best. I would like to start out by thanking Senator Brown for what they’ve shared because I know they have worked hard for the last 3 ½ years I’ve been here. Because I’ve worked hard at killing this bill for every year it’s come here. I feel your agony. I’ve been on the opposite side of this. You quoted a lot of good information. There again, by themselves, mopeds are structured to go under 30 miles per hour, about the same as a bike. We go down this road of putting some sort of insurance on mopeds, won’t be long at all and it will be bicycles. I want to make sure everyone understands that the most important thing about a moped is is that it’s transportation. It takes you to a job. It gives someone an opportunity to get to the next step. You know it’s hard. It’s hard because we talk about the study bill that’s coming in, it’s the next step. That’s what it is. You’ve been up here a long time and you know exactly what’s happening. The insurance companies have reached out and said hey listen we want to get you to place a fee on these to get them on the road and everyone will get full insurance and it will be the exact opposite. We’ll have a few people walking, and not jobs. And, the same group will be complaining and not have a job. I ask you not to support this bill and I will give you a little more information. I’m so passionate about this bill because I used to be on the other side of the chair. I used to believe that a moped were a hindrance and they used to aggravate me. Until 2000, and I decided I wanted to sell mopeds one year at my retail store. I got an education far beyond what I can imagine, folks. Everybody that drives a moped is not a drunk. Everyone that comes in to ride a scooter back and forth are not dirt of the earth. There a lot of hard working people just trying to get by. And, they’re trying to get a job and they’re trying to move in the right direction. A bill like this is all it does is take a snake and cut it’s head off. Because you think he’s a snake. He’s not a snake. He’s working to try to provide for his family. I tell you it’s been tough year after year and face this bill. You’ll hear more statistics to tell you. But, you can compare those statistics to someone driving a car, someone driving a golf cart. No one else complains. I know this. Golf carts in communities, depend on the community. You know why that is? Because rich people drive golf carts, that’s why that is. Poor people drive scooters because nobody wants to be on one. But, they’re trying to get back and forth to work. I’m going to end with this story…

I tell you, even how I sometimes get blinded by what I was trying to do. After killing this bill two times or trying hard, I feel like I was part of that process. I was going from Lee County to Harnett County one morning and it was drizzling rain. I was sitting in my SUV, had the heat on about 75, had a donut in one hand and coffee in the other and for about 20 seconds I started having some hard thoughts about the guy in front of me and then I just stopped and looked in my surroundings. It's 7:45 he's going to work and I'm riding in a warm car with a donut and coffee. I don't want to be the guy to take that guy down. Let him go feed his family. Let him provide and let's talk about the ones or twos out here who maybe don't need to drive but you're pushing this on everyone. So I asks you to not support this bill and not vote it out of this committee. Thank you [SPEAKER CHANGES] Sheriff you want to respond to that? [SPEAKER CHANGES] I do want to respond. First of all the insurance companies never contacted me about this bill at all. I have nobody from the insurance companies come and say, "Hey we want to insure mopeds can you get this out there?" That did not happen. And yes there are people there and the reason we don't have a clause in there that prohibits people from driving those or having to get a drivers license because I know there are some people who probably can't get one. It's not an attempt to hurt them but I think each and every one of us, whether we're driving a moped or a vehicle on the highway, are responsible and should be responsible to someone else and right now there's no insurance coverage. If that person gets in an accident, and I don't know what situation put them in that that they have to drive a moped but I do believe this, as a responsible citizen that I've always tried to been, that many of you have tried to be, if I have to drive a moped, I think it's just asking not a whole lot to put insurance on there in case there is an accident or something so this insurance coverage could take care of the situation. It's not an attempt to keep anybody from going to work but if we're going to work and we're going to be on the highways then we should be accountable and we should be responsible for what we're doing in our actions and so forth. So I don't see that there's a problem with that. I wasn't lobbied by insurance people about this. Is 60 something dollars a year on the average so I don't think it's a problem as far as I'm concerned and yes I do have compassion for those people who ride and drive mopeds but by the same token, we're all responsible for our actions and if I'm on the highway with a moped then I think it's the least that I can require myself is having insurance in case there is an accident. Also know that police chief association has told me in the past that they support this bill because there are a lot of people that use mopeds and pushing drugs and if they steal one of those they are not documented, they're not plated, they are not registered, you don't know who they belong to. They use those to run drug activity and when they use those to run drug activity and they're on the run they throw them down, leave them, they don't know who to track them back to. They don't know who they belong to. So this isn't an attempt to hurt anybody that's innocent. It's an attempt to do the right thing and I think the right thing is to make sure they are rated, plated and registered with the insurance on them. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Ok next on the list, Representative Graham. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chair. I just want to question of the bill's sponsor. [SPEAKER CHANGES] So pose your question. [SPEAKER CHANGES] When someone buys or purchases a moped are they required to go through any kind of training prior to getting out on the road with these vehicles? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Not that I'm aware of, however, it is stated here that at some point in time they must have had a drivers license which they don't have to have one currently but at some point in time they must have had a drivers license and I will allude to Giles, if he's here, he can share more about the statutes concerning that. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Perry or Miss Carter? [??] [SPEAKER CHANGES] I'm not aware that there is a requirement for training. There is a motorcycle safety course but I don't believe there is one for mopeds. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Okay. Did you hear that? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Can I respond to that please? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Did you finish your question? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes he can respond I want to come back. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr Chairman [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Graham, what i would like to see probably if we can pass this initial push of this bill... [SPEAKER CHANGES] Excuse me. Everybody please silence your electronic devices. Thank you. Sorry to Mr. Shepard he has the floor [SPEAKER CHANGES] What I would like to say is, with the study part of this it is something we probably can look at to see if that's a requirement that's needed in the future. This is just a starting point to minimally ask small things of those that drive mopeds on the highways and with the study portion of this that we put in...

It would be something where they could come back to oversight from meeting and they may want to report on that. If there's training needed for the people who drive mopeds and so forth Representative Graham. [SPEAKER CHANGES] So Graham you're follow... [SPEAKER CHANGES] I was just flat making comments Miss Chair [SPEAKER CHANGES] You're [??] [SPEAKER CHANGES] I'm not going to repeat Representative Stone's comments but I support him 100%. I live in rural county. We have a number of rural county roads. We don't have the conveniences of the urban counties where we can drive a couple minutes or a couple of blocks down the street to get a loaf of bread and I do know that, coming from my perspective in my county, we have individuals who are using these vehicles to sustain their life, to sustain their livelihood, to take care of their families and I'm just afraid we're going down a slippery slope when we start doing this and I do have some reservations. I thank you for your passion on this, Representative Brown but looking at the demographics in my county and the folks that are using these vehicles and the fact that we're not even doing any training with them before they make this purchase, just get out on the streets. I really have some reservations. I don't think I can support it at this time. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Shepard? [SPEAKER CHANGES] I have no comments except to say that I'm in a rural area and an urban area at the same time and I was always taught that we should be responsible and accountable for our actions and so forth whether I'm driving a bicycle, a moped or whatever and mopeds are something that are relatively new in the last several years and we've been inundated. I've been inundated with phone calls and complaints about the incidents and accidents with mopeds and the fact that there is no insurance. There's no way to capture very much data because they are not registered and plated and I don't think asking someone to pay insurance, to have insurance, liability insurance and property insurance on mopeds and asking them to plate those and register those is asking too much if they are going to be on the highway driving them. That's all I would say to that. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Representative Shepard. We have about seven people on the list and we do have to be out of here at 10 til. Representative Stames you next. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Miss Chairman. A couple of questions. Is there anybody here from the insurance industry who can answer questions on insurance for mopeds? It's been stated that the insurance would probably be $65 a year. My question is if a person's been convicted of a DUI wouldn't their insurance be rated up and be much more expensive than that? I don't know if anybody... [SPEAKER CHANGES] Someone in the audience can answer that question. [SPEAKER CHANGES] We have someone from the rate bureau and the information I gave you, Representatvie Stames, came from Ray Evans with the NOrth Carolina Rate Bureau. It was basic limits for $30,000 per person, $60,000 per accident bodily injury and $25,000 property damage and for a Ford Taurus 2013 it was $191 for the bodily injury and $205 for the property damage. A motorcycle 500-1249 cc's was $50 and $53 a year. The moped as rated as 0-499 cc's, the average would be $31 and $33 for a total of $60-some a year and the man from the rate bureau you might would like to share if you have any information concerning his specific question. [SPEAKER CHANGES] If you step to the microphone and identify yourself sir. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I'm Tim Lucas with the North Carolina Rate Bureau. To answer your question, most of the time points would go to the private passenger auto that the person owns but typically if they do not have a drivers license they're notconsidered an operator and within that household if they don't have a license unless they're the name insured. So if they're the named insured then they would be charged their points on their personal auto but typically it would not go to the motorcycle or moped unless that's the only vehicle they own. [SPEAKER CHANGES] That answer your question Representative Stames? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes it did. So basically if you drive an automobile and you get a DWI you're going to pay more for your insurance but you can be a convicted drunk driver and you can drive the moped and there's no increase in your insurance. The next question's for the bill's sponsor and it's talking about there on line 15. "Moped has a manufacturer's certificate of origin." And how difficult is this to obtain? I can just imagine there are a lot of mopeds and especially older mopeds that don't have this and they get bought and sold all the time and I don't know that this. How difficult is that...

...want to be or what percentage of mopeds out there do you think would have a difficulty in obtaining this? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Moffitt (?) would handle that and if...[BACKGROUND ??] [SPEAKER CHANGES] Line 25 [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Chairman I'm Kelly Thomas the Commissioner of Motor Vehicles. The certificate of origin looks much like a title you would get. This is a title for a Honda car. This is a MCO for a moped. They are the same as far as what you expect. There are some encryption features that you would expect that you could then title and license from. This particular MCO, the reason it's important, is it states that this vehicle, or this moped, meets all safety requirements to be operated on the road. If they don't, operator does not have this to register the vehicle, the vehicle has to be inspected by license and theft to determine whether it would meet road specifications. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you gentleman for your response. We do have three people signed up to speak. I'm trying to take as many questions before we get to them. But, whoever signed up to speak please prepare for about two minutes when you get your turn. Next, Representative Starnes are you satisfied at this point? [SPEAKER CHANGES] I was wanting to know what percentage of the mopeds would have that certificate of origin. Is it...do most have it or is it common or uncommon? [SPEAKER CHANGES] It's common with the new mopeds, yes sir. I can't speak about the old ones. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Jeter. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chairman. I am not the best reader in the world and I just don't see what some of my colleagues have pointed out. To me we're not talking about mopeds we're talking about safety on our roadway. These are our roads that are designed to be safe. I can assure you they won't let me get in a car unless it's passed inspection, has it's turn lights, has it's brake lights. Not because insurance wants that money, because it's dangerous to other vehicles and other passengers on our state-owned, city-owned roads. It's designed to provide safe transportation for all. To put mopeds on there that can't meet basic standards flies in contradiction to what our entire road system is based on. I don't understand the argument that you don't want safe travel. I've heard the comment, "Well, why we're going to make them have insurance and not get trained?" Well, they don't get training now and they don't have insurance. If the argument is I don't see the cost prohibitive nature of it. It's $65.00 a year. These people are going at 7:45 in the morning to go to work. $65.00 a year to provide insurance which is going to benefit that individual if they ever actually get in an accident. I don't see the cost prohibitive nature of it. But, this to me is less about roads and more about me being behind somebody at 7:45 in the morning and they don't have a brake light on their moped. And I run into the back of them because they don't have a brake light on the back of their moped and it's required by law and then I kill that individual. Because it was 7:45 in the morning, it was drizzling, and they didn't have a brake light. This bill prohibits that scenario from happening if we follow the law. As it is right now, think about it when ya'll drive home at night. How many times have you driven home behind a car and looked down for a second and you saw that read light? This moped, no red light, you just killed somebody. [SPEAKER CHANGES] State Representative Wayland(?) [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chairman. I don't see anything in the bill saying that it's going to ensure that mopads have proper safety features. We're talking about insurance and registration basically of the vehicle so we can trace it. I would think mopeds are already traceable. They have a serial number. You can find out who manufactured them. You can find out who the manufacturer sold it to and you can find out who the dealer sold it to. So, the idea that they're not traceable doesn't really fly with me. I've always been uncomfortable with licensing mopeds. We're down the road again of two years from now saying, "Oh, we've got them licensed, we've got them registered, we've got them insured, we've got..."

Make sure that we give them some kind of training for safety. We've got to make sure of this. We've got to make sure of that. We've left the mopeds alone for the simple reason that there are thousands and thousands of North Carolina citizens that use them to support their families. And I think at this point, that we should not start down a road that deprives an individual of this ability. We have bicycles out on the roads that are just as dangerous if not more dangerous than mopeds. I've had more problems avoiding bicycles than I have mopeds. And I've had some scary experiences with mopeds. But if you're driving and you're paying attention and doing what you should be doing when you're driving, you can react sufficiently to keep anything from happening. I do not support the bill. I won't support it in the future and I really think it is not the way for us to go. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Okay, Representative Rayne Brown, do you want to respond to that? [SPEAKER CHANGES] I do. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just very briefly, I think we are seeing the consequences of leaving the mopeds alone and we're seeing a growing problem. It is one of responsibility and I just have to say that I disagree wholeheartedly with someone I don't disagree a whole lot with, maybe I need to think about that too. But anyway, we just really really hope that we can do something about this. We've heard slippery slope and I get so tired of that. That slippery slope is in our power. It only becomes a slippery slope if we want it to be. I know that speaking for both of us, we have absolutely no intention of ever coming back for another bite of the apple, in terms of requiring a drivers license. That is not our intent and that is not something we're planning on doing. Thank you, Mr. Chair. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Boles. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chair. A question to the bill sponsor. What are other states doing? [SPEAKER CHANGES] I don't have the complete information on that. I did get an email this week from a lady that sent the article, the one on Carolina Beach. And I know that Virginia has even required a drivers license now, according to her email, if you drive a moped on their roads. That's what she said. I don't know this, Mr. Perry has some information from other states. [SPEAKER CHANGES] It does not. Representative Blackwell. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to follow up on a reference that both Representative Stone and Cleveland made. I'm just curious. I'm sympathetic to what you're trying to deal with but I would like to understand if we were to support this legislation, how we decide where we draw the line on further state regulation of, and in particular as it relates to bicycles. Representative Brown, you were citing statistics on mopeds. What are the statistics on bicycles being in road accidents and is there some substantive difference with bicycles that says well we would never require them to be registered and have liability insurance even though they're on the public highways because bicycles are different from mopeds in ways that we would never go there. But could you sort of help me understand your thinking there, and statistically what is the case with bicycles being involved in on road accidents, if you know? [SPEAKER CHANGES] We don't really have an answer to that, Representative Blackwell. All I can tell you is in Onslow County, we've had 2 people killed in the last 7 months on mopeds, which was a real tragedy. I know the incident that happened in Carolina Beach, the lady wasn't killed but serious damage was done to property and so on and so forth, and the innocent person had to pay it all, out of her insurance. And I just, I've been inundated with, and maybe the police chief's association and league of municipalities who support this so they're going to speak later can share more information that we don't have on this. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The list is getting longer instead of shorter. So we're going to give these folks that travel a long way about 2 minutes each, because there's only 3 of them that signed up. And if I can call up in the order they signed up. You've got 2 minutes

?? will remind you when your time's up. Fred Baggett, the Police Chief's Association. I apologize to the community members but the list was getting longer and our time's going to be a problem. ?? travel a long way. [Speaker Changes] Thank you Mr. Chairman. I am Fred Baggett, council to the North Carolina Association of Police Chiefs. We have supported such a bill as this for a long time and appreciate the opportunity to stand up and support it again. Police chiefs in this state consider this a significant enhancement for public safety and law enforcement. With a proliferation of mopeds, accidents have proliferated involving mopeds and victims which can't be compensated have proliferated. Property damage, personal injury and accidents involving mopeds with no insurance. Like any driver of any vehicle many moped operators are judgement proof and without insurance victims are without any recourse. And our police officers have to investigate these accidents, write up the accidents reports and tell the victims that they can't help them, that there is no insurance that they can go against. The other important aspect of moped regulation, to the extent that this bill does regulate and require insurance and registration for mopeds, is law enforcement. We've seen a great increase in the use of mopeds in the commission of crime. Burglaries, robberies, drug dealing, gang activity, are all facilitated by the use of mopeds. And the solving and the prevention of these crimes is hindered by the lack of registration of mopeds. Having a serial number on a moped is of no use when the moped has changed hands four or five times. You can't go back to the manufacturer or the dealer and find out who bought and there fore find out who was driving it last night when a drug deal went down or a business was burgled. If it is required to be registered there is a license plate and the current registrant can be determined. I'm given the stop signal, thank you for your attention. [Speaker Changes] Thank you Mr. Baggett. The next person on the list, Whitney Christensen, League of Municipalities. [Speaker Changes] Thank you Mr. Chair. My name is Whitney Christensen, I'm a lobbyist with the North Carolina League of Municipalities. I'll be brief. We just wanted to thank Representative Shepard and Representative Brown for their leadership on this. The league obviously supports the bill, in fact it's one of our top 25 goals of the biennium. Our members voted statewide to prioritize it as such. The big reason being their seeing, particularly our law enforcement members are seeing a big increase in the use of mopeds in the commission of crimes. And they feel, like Fred Baggett from the Police Chiefs said, that if these mopeds were registered it'd be easier to track them and track down the people who are responsible for these crimes. We hope you'll support it. Thanks. [Speaker Changes] Okay. If I can just stop you for a second, Ms. Christensen, one of our members indicated he had a question for you particularly. [Speaker Changes] No guarantee that I can answer it ... [Speaker Changes] ?? [Speaker Change] Thank you Mr. Chairman. Were does the League stand on golf carts? [Speaker Changes] To my knowledge we don't have a position on golf carts. [Speaker Changes] Thank you. [Speaker Changes] Thank you. ??. Ms. Christensen apparently another question for you. [Speaker Changes] Got another question for you. What about entities that lease these for, say, vacation purposes? [Speaker Changes] To my knowledge we don't have a position on that either. [Speaker Changes] Thank Ms. Christensen. Next person on the list is John Hill, I don't have your organization. If you'll identify yourself. [Speaker Changes] My name is John Hill. I'm a 40 year industry veteran of the motorcycle and power sports industry. I live in ??, North Carolina, operate a business that does sell mopeds. I've worked extensive with South Carolina, Virginia and their moped legislation. Neither requires insurance or a driver's license. I can help with a lot of details. I've been on past ??, have several friends in other states that are. Motorcycle Dealer Association and Electric Vehicle Association I represent, both oppose to this bill, the insurance is what we're opposed to. We're all about registration, the license tag and state inspection. We know that. We spent thousands of our own money trying to get that accomplished. But the insurance element is not available to someone, from what we're told, that doesn't have an active driver's license and cannot be sold liability insurance. The rate of 65 dollars is different than what we're told. Also I want you to be aware that an electric vehicle, and electric assist bicycle is a moped in North Carolina. Therefore you're talking about ??

Being insured, licensed, and registered if they have an electric assist motor. In my business we work with social services, several churches and community organizations putting people to work, to school that have no way, they've never had a driver's license this is their only means of transportation. Personally I've donated several to high schools for students to get to after school activities where there is no bus service provided. Again there have been task force in the other states and I suggest you at last consider that. We oppose the insurance element of your bill, but everything else the motor cycle dealer association electric vehicle we support you on the registration the state inspection and the license plate. It's so irritating to us to see a vehicle going down the road that was bought on the internet that is 150 CC which is not a moped thats a motorcycle they are going to fast , they're causing a lot of problems. The license and tagging will prevent that. You'll buy it and you have to get it registered and in Virginia they have to put it for one year. ??? last July you had to had to put a tag if you put a new moped that gave you an affidavit. In July of 2014 you must have a tag on every moped in that state. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Thank you Mr. Hill. We still have seven people on that list. I have Gail, Hall, Gram, ??, Brian, Brown, Hastings and Carney?? so far. So representative Gail, your question. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Thank you Mr. Camry. I think he answered part of my question is that will all mopeds have to be registered at the time of purchase. And the next question I had is will you be able to distinguish between those that are registered and those that are not. For example those that have been bought on the internet, how would you distinguish? And the other one is registration. What about the older mopeds that were manufactured before 2014, how would you register them? [SPEAKER CHANGES]. In section 3 here look at line 25. it says whenever the applicant for the registration of a moped is unable to present the manufacturer's certificate or origin for the moped the applicant must submit an affidavit stating why the application does not have the manufacturer's certificate of origin attesting that the applicant is entitled to registration. Upon receiving the application and a ?? affidavit the division shall issue that applicant a registration card and plate. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Followup? [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Follow up. I still want to know how you distinguish. I know that one of either with the police department, the police? [SPEAKER CHANGES]. When this bill passes all models are going to be required to have a required to have a plate and registration. So if you see one that doesn't have that then he's not following the law. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Does that answer your changes? Ok representative Hall has left the room. Okay. Representative Gram. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. ?? I just have a follow up question regarding inspections I guess the bill sponsors. I know motorcycles have to have an annual inspection is that correct? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes motorcycles have to be inspected. SPEAKER CHANGES] Is it true and do I understand that that a moped has no requirements requiring inspection in terms of safety, an annual inspection. [SPEAKER CHANGES] At this time there's nothing required of a moped. No insurance, no plates, no registration, nothing. Just get on it and ride. Have an accident and do bodily injury and no responsibility. [SPEAKER CHANGES]. Can I follow up with a comment? I just want to reiterate my earlier position. One, I think this is a bill about safety and operating a vehicle in North Caroline in a safe manner. When those things are not operated in a safe manner to me it sounds like to me we're having property damage. We're having issues with someone's vehicle having some property damage.But we're not requiring any kind of training. We're not assessing that individuals ability to get on that vehicle and operate it safely in North Carolina. We're not asking that person to operate this vehicle on the road and it's safe, tail lights, head lights, breaks. But we're saying that's okay. I think this is about safety.

And if we are doing things and being proactive and making sure that that person is someone who’s competent, someone who’s capable, someone who has the cognitive ability, someone who has the skills to operate this vehicle on-road prior to that purchase or prior to him entering on the highways, I think that’s proactive. If we are doing safety inspections of the vehicles, it’s five years old… How do we know that man has brakes? How do we know that his drag chain is functional? But we’re letting them operate on our state roads, so I think there’s some issues that before we jump to this… I guess to this financial responsibility, that we ask that driver to do some other things and take a proactive stance in making sure these things are safe. I think that’s the way we should be going, ensuring safety on our roads. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Brief response, Mr. Chairman. Representative Graham, this is a starting point. There are a lot of things that you brought up that were real good ideas, but this was just somewhere that we could start so that we could officially document what is going on with mopeds. As it is now, there’s no way to officially document anything because there’s no plates and registration. As it is now, if they’re involved in an accident and it’s their fault, the other party, the innocent person, has to pay because there’s no insurance on them, so this is a starting point. It’s not the solve-all. It wasn’t meant to be a solve-all but it’s a starting point. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Graham, follow-up? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Just to follow-up, when we have one of these fender benders, do we have a police report? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes sir, if they call the police. The lady that talked with me last week was bumped into by one, police report came, and her insurance had to pick up and pay for it all because the moped had no insurance. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Well… follow-up? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes sir. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes, Representative Graham. There’s intent to vote on this bill very soon. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I just want to… The comment was we have no documentation. We do have police reports, and if someone runs into my vehicle on a moped, I’m going to hold them there until police comes. They’re not going anywhere. [SPEAKER CHANGES] You have some documentation. You don’t have it all. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Speaker, I’d like to make a motion. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Graham, can you finish? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] ?? Boles, recognized for a motion. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you. I’d like to make a motion for a favorable report of this PCS or this bill. PCS, if favorable, refer to Finance. [SPEAKER CHANGES] For House Bill 1145. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Correct. [SPEAKER CHANGES] You’ve heard the motion and the division has been called for, so all in favor of the bill, please – [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Speaker? Mr. Chairman? Mr. Chairman, I’m not going to be able to vote on this unless I get my question answered, and I’ve been on the list. If ya’ll want to go ahead and vote, that’s fine, but I can’t vote until I speak to the staff about comparative negligence in North Carolina, so whatever. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Well we’ve got a motion on the floor, so we’ve got to go ahead and vote. ?? But you’ve heard the motion. All in favor, raise your hand and keep it raised. Drop your hands. All opposed, raise your right hand, or a hand. Only one. We have a count. There’s 17 for and 13 against. The PCS passes, and apologize to the other bill sponsors. We’ll re-notice these three bills for next week. The meeting is adjourned. Apologize to those who did not get their questions answered also.