A searchable audio archive from the 2013-2016 legislative sessions of the North Carolina General Assembly.

searching for


Reliance on Information Posted The information presented on or through the website is made available solely for general information purposes. We do not warrant the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of this information. Any reliance you place on such information is strictly at your own risk. We disclaim all liability and responsibility arising from any reliance placed on such materials by you or any other visitor to the Website, or by anyone who may be informed of any of its contents. Please see our Terms of Use for more information.

House | May 20, 2015 | Committee Room | Rules, Calendar and Operations

Full MP3 Audio File

Members of the house committee unrules count on operations of the house to come to order check things the members and the guest for their indulge so we walk to make sure we have copies before us and the chair welcome rigues. Mr. Johnson, Mr. Colnel, Mr. Skovins thank you for being with us today all staff is always for the handwork and central staff we join today and are capable or able body but also buy the finance staff. Members the matter before the committee today a committee substitute number 2 for House Bill 97. This matter is before the committee without objection. Hearing none, so ordered. Members the purpose of this bill being here today is the consideration of two amendments, the two amendments will actually become free, the chair will explain that in just a moment. As you know we have one standing rule and precedence that finance matters can't be amended in appropriations and appropriations matters can't be amended in finance. We also have additional rules more precedent that the Appropriations Committee has established about moving amounts of money within the budget itself. It's the ruling of the Chair and also the understanding of for exhibit that this committee would have jurisdiction over those announced or both in all those areas and over all of House Bill 97 as is currently before you. Members if you will direct your attention please, to an amendment sent forth by Representative Stein, which's being distributed. The amendment is H97ALH-25 version 6 first question. Do all members have this amendment. Members Secondly, and this will be the first time this session that we've done this, at the request of numerous members the Chair is going to order this amendment divided so this amendment will be divided on Page 3 beginning with line 30, Page 3 beginning with line 3. and continuing through the end of the printed amendment which concludes on page 4 the immediate matter for consideration before the committee will be dabbed for conversational purposes H97 ALH 25 Version 6A. So we are discussing Page three, beginning at line 30 which is an amendment to the budget. The Chair is going to recognize Representative Saine, for the purposes of explaining Amendment A. Thank you Mr. Chairman, and hopefully I understood that, a little chatter here, but as we divided that up, the very first one, F12, is the debt collection reinstatement. I'm sorry Mr. Chairman, are we going to go through each one, or these three as a package? I'm sorry. No, we're going to just do these three as a package. OK, correct. We should restore cuts to hospitals. F12, Make sure I'm following 71 there's an activity limitations, that allow university system to continue their federation, and give them whole bill management flexibility reduction which would allow you to [xx] next week [xx] some of the issues that we've been discussing there, so that's the purpose of the amendment could not do that, anyway staff here in rules, staff would you like to add to that at all, it was pretty simple and plain, I think let the chair confer with staff just to be clear, the net effect of this amendment is to inject an additional 40 million

and the university section of [xx] is that [xx] [xx] Members Chair realizes this is largely technical or is there a discussion or debate on amendment eight? Mr. Chairman Representative Stem. Not mention but I assume people know where is source to this money moment away on page 802 [xx] is that clear? Yes Sir, Thank you for [xx] Further discussions further debate representative Godman [xx] yes sir that is correct Further discussion or debate on amendment A? Seeing none Representative Sein as a member of the committee has moved the adoption of amendment A. Those favouring it will say aye, "aye". Those opposed will say no. In opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it and amendment A is adopted Members we're now going to proceed on with the first part of Representative Sein's amendement that's called H97ALH25 version 6b. This begins on page one line one and proceeds through page three line 27 so the chair will recognize representative [xx] at this time to explain amendment B. Rep. Stein. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And as it is before you, this would most of them budget, I can't understand a word [xx] thank you we're not used to big words hand and man. Members of the commission we are started. We start with this prayer Torbi, a little bit. Members if check have your [xx] please, we are fortunate today to be borrowing senate finance staff and out of that agreement and courtesy with the senate, chair is going to displace amendment B and we're going move on to the next amendment which will require the senate finance staff aid. So a member being Representative Sane will be temporarily displaced has the other member then distribute it to members Representative Bill, members this amendment is being passed around to you check the bill and get your brief overview perhaps to get context when it arrives at your desk. Representative Bell will send around an amendment it is viable H97ATD there is 51 version 7. this amendment would amend house bill 97 striking the set on the sunset renewable tax credit which is currently set for January 2016 we've extended the January 2018 the budget will be originally extended to 2019 just to be clear what this bill before you does, this amendment does, it's also the part

one point two two of the amendment scales back the amount of the renewable credit from 35% to 20% that found on line 16 for those of you who've received the amendment that's all do all members have copies of the amendment, chair is going to recognize representative Bell to finish to explain this bill, I actually listen to bill if you don't mind call and I think I'm busy for everybody to hear and see. but again we are allow in H97 ATD-51 version 7 submitted by representative Bail thank you Mr. Chairman members of the committee first we will release the announcements and we will all be responding to that and this time I would ask for questions I will be happy to address those with staff, I got some folks back here behind me that are a lot more versed about system than I am so, if you have any questions I'd ask you to support this amendment. Representative Ray I saw your hands first for what does the gentleman seek recognition. The gentleman is recognized for an inquiry. Yes sir. This has been going round and round and round and I believe Mr. Speaker I mean industry OK with this, I mean we're going to have people don't always give you loan as compromise has the company major players been at the table making these negotiations the gentleman is recognized if you like you can refer Representative Hager. I will refer Representative Hager, excuse I will refer Representative Stein on it. Representative Stein is recognized.   Thank you Mr. Chairman. It's good question as you may notice that because Hager has been punching me in the mouth all morning.  I'll punch back by the way, so fairly representative Hood can I ask you a question you are trying to include all aspect of this debate, from those who are ultimately against, those who ultimately critical to their mission statements, to what they need to do, to what they need to accomplish in terms of their business model, is by that means perfect. It is as best we could come up with so that both parties could be equally be satisfied with the outcome and at least have something to take back to the point of views that they represent, I think it's important that that both representative Harger and I stand up and tell you that because we have both sides have been fighting hard and brought as many folks into the mike in the senate to discuss again here is the motion involved and I'm happy and I should be because they got exactly what they wanted. But we trued to get something that was workable, something that was at least power to everybody involved at least follow the pillow and move on, so that's where we're at today, thank you for the question follow up. May I let Representative Hagger speak to the original question then gentleman  Thank you Representative [xx], the question and just a follow up Representative Stein, I'm equally dissatisfied. Representative Breintfor follow up? [xx] giving all jobs and providing I have a question. Gentleman may state his enquiry. On page one line 12 in our big budget right now that date the January 1st 2020 my question is what is the cost of this of the credit under the new 20% to 35% for 2018 and 2019 you have that period available those figures available. Representative Brust Chair is going to refer the staff to get you the exact answer of the question. Representative bot the amendment does not have physical impact into physical impact there will be a reduction in the cost of the general fund begining in 17 18 of about 20 million per and after compared to the provision you currently have in the budget.

Representative Carney[sp?] and then Rep. [xx] Rep. Carney[sp?] for what purpose? Representative Connie[sp?] the chair is just going to take that in the interest of time the reduction starts on the second hearing at least that's the intent of the drafters. OK and then follow up?   The lady's recognized. And then it's phased out? Rep. Carney[sp?], the chair is going to take that one as well. Currently law of the credit would end in January of 2016. So, absent of any action at all the credit goes away completely the budget that you had that we've debated for the past two days would have extended the credit to the 29 [xx] The amendment that you have before you extends it to 2018 so two years. [xx] I'll let the bill sponsor speak to that one, Nadya was the a little bit of uncertainty in the [xx] landing food industry if the [xx] want to move forward but we have another chamber we have to deal with moving forward so Representative Bob Gardner what purpose your recognition? I want to comment about this. The gentleman is recognised speak on the amendment. Thank you I appreciate for bringing this up I had this commandment in appropriations and it was ruled out of order so am glad we are here today then that must mean it's extra good [xx] Representative Tucker, the gentleman is recognized on page one on section 1.2, I'm not sure I understand capacity cost and the total delivered capacity and energy cost and the parts that are struck out there in lines 20 through 31. Could somebody explain to me the effects that has on the industry. Representative Szoka, we're going to let that initially to staff and then to one of the amendment sponsors that the gentleman so we refer to senator Rachel and I was asked to say his name publicly, thank you [xx] center goes wrong? Representative Szoka, this part is actually about how Duke recovers cost from its ratepayers, this does not actually impact the qualifying facilities for themselves this is not the change constantly you are thinking of from last week about the standard contracts of qualifying facilities what the section does is allowed as far as the change, what the section does is allow the public utilities to recover and the few writer that they get each year, all of the cost that they are paying to the qualifying facilities the renewable energy they are purchasing energy from, it allow them to recover this cost from rate payers and rider rather than through a generate case so it should not impact the afro qualifying raising sell wonder how public utilities are getting paid for their payment to the crossline facility. So as a matter of fact if I try and understand it correctly, is just the difference in the way that this process's work, not necesarily how much the energy company can charge for. It should not impact with the within that short period crossline facility so it doesn't impact with pain qualified facility it's what they would be covering for the rate payers refute the money they are paying. Are there further inquiries, or further discussion or debate on the amendment ATD 51 versus sent forward by the gentleman from Wake? Seeing none those who favour the amendment will signify by saying aye. Aye. Those opposed will signify by saying no. In the opinion of the chair the ayes have it, the amendment members, we'll now move back to what the Chair labelled amendment B, amendment B the chair adopted I know thank you the chair thanks for letting us get that bill with stuffs done and you are now recognise to explain the amendment [xx] as it is this will take the multiply fund and return to be funded by the institute on according to this project that is what does the part of stuff require any explanation? And here we go. Thank you representative stam recognition the gentleman has the floor

to debate the amendment [xx] can be adopted that is they come in this bill does not convert it cause we already in amendment A and got lead of that power plan and I see you insist this amendment bill is the deal is simple and create this new investment plan with agitate for all ideal for a couple of weeks. One is it ejects the legislature into the investment decisions and practice by requiring unanimous joint approval of certain people they could be the Speaker, or the President Pro Tempore of the Senate intellecting the investment advisor, legislative bodies are not elected for the purpose of doing that legislative bodies are not elected for the purpose of doing that, and the State Treasurer is elected by the people for that reason and is fully accountable for that, but here it injects us into that. Secondly, on page 2 excuse me I think it's page 3, lines 14 and 15. It's clear what kind of investment they're going for because the Venture Multiplier Fund was for innovations and inventions of particular commercial value. This says in lines 40, 50, notwithstanding percentage limitations imposed on the carve [xx] investments under those [xx] in other words the riskiest type of investment. This is the [xx] Fund, it doesnt belong to us and that it belongs to our retirees, I just think this is a very dangerous precedent to get into, and I'd just encourage you not to adopt this move. Members, as this is an amendment to House Bill 97, and Representative Dollar is the lead sponsor of House Bill 97. The Chair is going to recognize for the purpose of speaking on this amendment. Representative Dollar Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let me just mention a couple of things about this, what we are trying to do, what is the primary the problem that we are trying to solve, and I think that you need to go back and look at what's the problem that we're trying to solve. The problem that we are trying to solve in this state is as big a state as we are, as healthy as we are in our economy, we have a debt, we're a desert when it comes to venture capital usually low and everybody who's been out therein the economic development world, understands that and knows that nature. So Georgia and some others have worked over the years to put very similar programs, and what it is is, the state providing seed money that will [xx] in this case $80 million at least that much into front to be able to use for venture capital development there is a lot of work that has to be done in all of this before we commend forward the provision is as it is today the language that you see here thus we are not going to fund this in the budget through the sheet fund a question sheet that make that much money on that money but we wont going to do that we are just going to straight appropriation, but now we are in the scenario we are back to what the original proposal the governor was we did consult with the treasure and I think it's fair to say they are at least comfortable with the language if it's coming out of this huge fund that's probably would greatly prefer, but we have adopted in this amendment language that came from the treasures office that makes him far more comfortable with the process in terms of being able to have the appropriate controls, but again what we see is in model after the program so much similar program in Georgia the model is we put money out there we are drawing in the huge amounts of capital that frankly are sitting on the side lines and the state and bills businesses take some risk because this is venture capital and go work economy in the state this is about jobs this is an absolute job creator on the cutting age we create all these research year it's time to be able to capitalize some of that and create these jobs. Representative Torbett what purpose [xx] representative Dolla the gentleman has the gentleman from Gaston has an inquiry.

Yes, sir. Thank you, Representative. Could you touch on how electrical property is affected such as if you were in venture capital and you may have rights to the [xx] property, and therefore how does that, what we're doing address intellectual property? Well, I am not loyal you will have to refer to stuff and the question of intellectual property. Budget drafting division, that issue is not addressed in this particular provision, Sir. Representative Blust, for what purpose? I have a question. The gentleman may state his inquiry. As I understand it Chip[sp?] Fund has all sorts of different classes of property, it's just property that doesn't have an owner or we don't know where the owner is, so it reverts to the state because everything must be owned by something, how much of the Fund is in assets that are liquid that are conducive to use to invest? And how much are more illiquid-type assets and do we ever sell the illiquid to make them liquid? as part of the Escheat Fund administration. The Chair is looking for the first eager staffer Representative Blust, may we come back to you in? I'm sorry, yes Sir. Representative Stam Henry[sp?] Hey Edgar. Take your phones off [xx] Hey Edgar I remember years ago there were a billion dollars in the Escheat Fund and then when the economy had a downturn the General Assembly took money from the Escheat Fund to help fill some of the budget holes. It got to where it was $200 million, its build back up to about $400 million the cause of the propensity to have to take money out of the achieve[sp?] fund to fill budget holes, treasury is not able to make long term investments we have to keep it liquid because there's no certainty that the [xx] can grow. So currently the [xx] fund is very liquid Representative Stann has a question for Mr. Stones. Mr. Stones Is the Treasurer asking us to pass this Amendment? the current may have been long standing discussion between the treasurer and the governors office, because the Office of the President Pro Tempore on the proper kind of structure to create in order to do this kind of investment. The language you have in front of you have been agreed upon by the Treasurer and the Governor, and leadership here in terms of to do this kind of investmenting on this state however whether to do investment in and to structure this way and is a policy decision and you all need a pallowing decision for you. That's a Fund. The Chair is going to recognize Mark Bondo with our Fiscal staff to address Representative Blust, inquiry. Mark Bondo with Fiscal Research. So, the total fund balance of the sheets fund expected at the end of this year would be about $495 million of  that amount, apologize after it expected that about 295.8 $. 6 million would be liquid and the state short-term investment fund which is essentially a money market and the then there is also a liquid investment in addition to that problematic [xx]. Further inquiries to discussion debate I'm sorry [xx] I know Rep. Stam wants to speak a second time, but are there any other inquiries? Rep. Stam is recognized to debate the amendment a second time. Thank you, and I'm glad that Rep. Burr explained the intent of the fund as it was in the multiplier because what they intend to do is much worse that what it takes. What they intend to do is have this 40 million, get other people 80 million and it dwarfs[sp?] 120 in the start. Which adds to the government [xx] and pick winners and losers, you're going to win some, you're going to lose some but I wish I had known this was coming up, I would have brought my one senate quote from Adam Smith form the wealth [xx] but I would have to remind you of

it and I think I can paraphrase it. What he said in the wealth of nations is that any senate or council whatever that's you, who thinks that you can direct the capital of other people better than they can themselves is in no respect more foolish or unwise than in the person who has the folly and presumption enough to think he or she can do it. I rest my case. Rep. Bumgardner, for what purpose does the gentleman seek recognition? To debate the amendment. The gentleman has the floor to debate the amendment. I think also I agree with what has been said this is a bad coincidence we need to a boy getting into this entanglement is a mistake is going lead to worse mistakes, it's some place I personally don't think we need to go and I would ask you to vote against this amendment. Representative Glass[sp?], for what purpose does the gentleman seek recognition? To debate the amendment. The gentleman has the floor to debate the amendment. One of the concerns I have with this other than the philosophical I hope representative Stern deal with 2 at this point the history of our economy from what I have been reading head funds and venture couples return to expected and have been decreasing simply because so many of the opportunities out there has been grabbed up and returns are expected diminish rejected in the next years which means if you are making an evaluation on the risk return using the risk return method the potential returns are falling while the risk is the same so when you mix those together, the risk is really going ging up and you've seen lately for example with companies, they've become very profitable because after the economic crisis everyone aggressively cut costs, shared divisions, all kinds of things they've been very reluctant to hire and they've been generating a lot of cash in a lot of the games in the stock market have actually come from companies using their incredible cash positions to buy back their own chairs, and that's been driving a lot so I think there is more danger now doing this kind of thing and there has been even the facts aside from the philosophical objection even if your philosophically in tune with doing I think the danger is much bigger right now to go down this road. Representative Dorsey, for what purpose do you need recognition? the gentleman has the floor to debate the amendment. I think venture capitalism [xx] I've been involved in a business where venture capital was also involved, I think there people out there who are smart enough, who can see a deal and there are so many opportunities so if you don't have venture capital you just not going to be in the game and I think it's worth our time to give this a chance. Representative Bell what purpose do you receive your recognition? Page two line 20 contract with North Carolina non profit to invest, do we know from the treasure if this is the new commerce? The gentleman is asking about page two begin at line 19 it's talking about North Carolina non profit invest in long term a liquid representative Dollar or staff for ladies gentlemen enquiry. Let me comment first in and out I think make a related comment, Oh yeah still drafting be the concept here their would be a non profit who was able to take on some of the duties of the treasurer inhaling this [xx] capital investment it's going to be an administration noble investment, it does not identify a particular company and the way it's written it will be open to selection as provided by whatever means we have in this amendment and I

understand here their would be inability to do that which sought to a appointed by various parties has already been described, but there is no unidentified here so their will be a determination having been made as part of the administration of this project, In just a follow up members of the committee could be at ease for one money is about North Carolina is at risk members Chair always guess what it can to keep good members on form, the reason we are tripple at is is to confirm that we have some information from the governors office that the language currently before you might not be exactly what they have intended for to be let's just get clear application on that and will come back for the record on the board,. Right I understand that even you is that we have cleared a new bond or not proceed on. Private partnership I don't know I well come if there is a question thank you? Representative Lukas we will come to that in just a minute. I want recognise Representative Dollar to speak to another part of the Bill. The amendment. Thank you, just to clarify a couple of items or point a couple of things out, one. There are a couple of people mentioned, in terms of their sheet fund the sheet fund, is not a permanent makes a whole lot of money it's not a pitching fund. If it was the pitching fund, we wouldn't be here, talking about this at all That's a whole lot of conversation. The other thing I would point out and this is specific to represent Paul's question, if you look down there are on page two, section CY and 25, and sub section 3. It talks about the contraction with the third party, Professional Investment Management Firm with us security exchange commission under that a public procurement process with the governor's disgny, the disgny of state treasure, the designy of the speaker, designy of the presidents pro chamber standards which you must unanimously so act the third party proportional investment management for them again registered with SCC for the purposes of working with these investments so we are not talking talking about some folks getting together and putting 100 bucks in the party each and Dine stacks. We are talking about proffessionals and engineers and again the point is to address what we know is a critical need in the state which is venture capital and we can help draw that private money off the side lines and into the game. Members if the Chair could have your attention please, in the interest to trying to save a little bit of paper representative Stem is going to submit a technical amendment that deletes page two lines 19, 324 So that will be section A and B for the purpose of our conversation and real numbers begin at line 25 our change in C to A D to B and so on. Are there any questions on the profecting amendment send forward by Representative Saine. Representative Boles. I still, and I agree with what you're saying, but I still, if we're talking about capital venture in the state and we have a commerce department and we just developed a new, they're not they should be represented all here And how many people are we going to have trying to develop jobs we can again, I don't know they should do this as one of the [xx], let's start with me the treasure of getting into the [xx] maybe I'm

reading it wrong, I know I'm I dumb. The Chair will not agree with that observation, but for the purpose of the matter before the committee, which is the Perfecting amendment sent forward by Representative Saine, which amends Page 2, lines 19-24. After reading those lines and re-numbering them accordingly. Is there further discussion or debate on the Perfecting Amendment? Representative Bumgardner, for what purpose does the gentleman seek recognition? debate the perfecting amendment. The gentleman has the floor to debate the perfected amendment. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Perfecting Amendment doesn't perfect this very well. It's still we're going to cut right to the chase here where the line says, Firm to administer Fund following of procuring process blah blah blah, that doesn't make this issue very So be it. Mr. Chairman. Representative Stam, for what purpose does the gentleman seek recognition? I think it makes it a teeny tiny bit better, some of us for Perfecting Amendment. The gentleman is recognized to debate the Perfecting Amendment. Is there further discussion or debate on the Perfecting Amendment? Seeing none, the question before the committee is the amendment send forward by the gentleman from Lincoln, which amends the bill on Page 2, lines 19-24 by deleting those lines. Those in favor of the motion will say aye. Aye. Those opposed will say no. The ayes have it and the perfected amendment is adopted. We're back on the amendment B as amended, and the chair recognizes, I actually we have a list, Representative raise all the hands Representatives Bros, Jackson and Bowl. Representative Bros your purpose of rise? I herd you. Representative Jackson your purpose on the commission. The gentleman has debate the amendment B. Thank you Mr chairman I think chairman Dollar kind of summarized my argument earlier, when he called North Carolina a desert for adventure capture work. Adventure capitalist are in the business of making money, if they could make money doing these things in North Carolina they would be here. they are doing it, because apparently some other scrupulous reason why they are not and we're not addressing that in here. Adventure capitalist are about like investing in the Facebook, but they have probably nine failures for every success they have, I don't the tax payers have the stomach for that especially when it comes to other people's money, this is money collected by the government, this is money by the state treasurer for someone's benefit, up till they had the person's name they just don't know their address, you've all seen a the state treasurer at the fair or something often people look up their name and find out they got to find the dollars they didn't know about, the pension fund was mentioned, and that would address the state problem, problem is the stick [xx] is not growing because they have to keep it liquid because we keep raiding it, we can all here today senator McGrady we will not write it any more they can put it in an investment like they did the pension and the problem will be found without the real to all the owner of the property I would argue the repeat of the amendment. Representative Bob the gentleman wish to debate the amendment yeah am still concern and agree with what we have done but I don't know if the bill sponsor would entertain adding a member of the new governors [xx] further private patnership that if commerce is going to be commerce and now treasures is getting into commerce, the chair is going to ask if I believe there is a member from the government stuff here they can come up to the front please Representative Frazer the Chair saw your hand, but saw Representative Goodman's first, so we'll. For what purpose does the gentleman seek recognition? debate Amendment B as amended and the gentleman has the floor. I'll make a couple of comments. There's one difference between a venture capitalist and economic development. They are two totally different things. There are people everyday who have great business plans but don't have the capital

to do the start up and that's what the venture capital fund is for. So I think that expertise to work in the commerce department and be an economic developer is totally different from being able to read a business plan and decide what is a good idea and what would create jobs in the state. So I think it's a very good idea. I know it sounds scary and it sounds risky but the're lots of people that have venture capital funds that they run privately that do very very well and they're reading business plan they like, and they throw away the bad ones and they create jobs and they make money so I don't see it being as risky as it sounds like it's really scarily, but I really believe it's a sound idea so I support it. The chair's aware of representative Frailly and representative to Heistins however you are going defer momently to the bill I believe is going to address the question to the governors office. Representative Dollar. If the gentleman could address as representative Borles question with respect to how this is coordinated or supported by the department of commerce I believe big party answer is what representative Godman said, but I think since the governor office is championing this and this is where the department of farmers comes under that if we can speak to that relationship. Thank you Mr. Chairman I run into governors office we won't do anything that would undermine any compromise language that we have with tragedy and leadership however we would be fine with that if the bodies decision and also the governor can always make a designated member of the EDP or the commerce department so which ever way this [xx] decides to go we'll be happy with that as long as others, it's important the compromise language don't have a problem with it. Thank you Mr. Mittle Representative Freily for what purpose your do you seek recognition? The gentleman has the floor to debate the bill. P3 is to get companies to come here, they're still talking about getting people to invest in a company's ideas, that are [xx] I think it's two different things. Second question follow up please. Gentlemen may state his inquiry. [xx] South Carolina and Georgia have used [xx] do we have any idea how they are doing it or what partnership companies [xx] Representative Dollar. It's my understanding that in Georgia and I don't have all of that detail with me this morning but they started around 2002 and so they're little more directly tiding with there university system to structure just a little bit differently I wouldn't want to wadge too much into that water because I dont want to say something that's not exactlty correct so they've had over a decade of experience with it in Georgia it's worked there well they've created jobs and they've created private sector investment most is as almost smaller nature because you're talking about venture you're talking about start of and alike so it's getting things going getting Ideas where he's going and of course the people who the gentleman from the goverment office did menion is the people who brought this idea to the governor are those who are working with Vintage Capital in North Carolina in still the same issues that you and representative Goodman had said and I talked to governor about it how can all this institutional cabins, institutional money out there here is the institutional power just seating doing nothing and not doing what they couldn't be doing for North Carolina's economy and so again it's just like the  gentleman has said, the idea is to get that money, get that money and play and create jobs. Further discussion? The Chair apologizes for Representative Hastings. state competition I guess I have to address it out here section one of that addresses the siege process prior July 1971 equals to the acquisition

of registered so I just wanted to see the inner play between this building state competition just to satisfy my own eyes before I cast the vote I report after we said we want it mentioned eight to and said it need students to help somebody before I cast the vote. Might not be a problem at all, I just like I said want somebody [xx] Well I think that Emily Johnson for bill drafting I think that what the constitution provision is saying is that the money, if the state uses the money, it has to be used for, go towards worthy and need, education for worthy and need, Susan so. [xx] state I'm sorry. So often times what you all do is you appropriate the interest you get from the street[sp?] fund and that goes to is moved into the student aid fund. I take that I don't think you have a constitutional issue here necessarily in that I think you still if I understand the plan is still to use the return on the money as the constitution has directed your debate is really what to do with cooperate for that you are generating money for the sustainment is that helpful? Thank you Mr. Chair. Further discussion or debate Representative Stern. Just amended. The gentleman is recognized to speak to speak on the amendment as amended.  I will reply that question [xx] to declare who the beneficiary to the students medium worthy students mid base scholarship and as representative Jackson said the owners of these property so we did have a fountain. Basic principle of judicially laws is that you have to be solely focused on the needs and rate of return for the beneficially the whole purpose of that is not to help the beneficially, but to help selected companies that you fake will do the job North Carolina it violates judicially law one, but number two government is just as good thing. Representative Brust Representative Brust said, I would further point out given what representative Dollar said he pointed there are all kinds funds of money out there sitting on the side lines and that what the point I made earlier there is a tone of it and there is no place for very few places forward to be put, now if all these private money sitting there on the side line with these experts and people want and to make a high return that evaluate project and a good at it to do that work and they can find it invested why are we going take 40 million from our heatpan[sp?] and take the art for more find those there was good potential stand ups to [xx] your capital did already get your capital out you are doing it and there are not finding right now, why would we do it best? That's the question I would ask before you vote on this. Representative Dollar, comment?   The idea is that we need the capital, the point is to get the capital in place, the idea of the original and all kinds of great ideas in the state and we have a lot of people with entrepreneurial spirit. Let's help give them the tools to create the jobs we want them to create another small things I just mention is that I don't believe we have appropriated from each issue to my I found the members occur. What follow Representative Don, Representative Don you said there are a lot of private money out there if the opportunities are there, why is that private money going to do already? I think Representative Goodman had a much better answer than I and Representative Frenly[sp?] is you have the concept is to get the seed money out there again, same goes down in Georgia, they had similar problems and is to get money to share risk and get money that has to be sought around for the game that's really what is about. Representative Davis. There are thousands and thousands of very good people

have the reason why they are put into places is the lack of capital and that's what I'm sure the people who are in charge of this will look at this as plans as [xx] done to provide money for people that have really this disappointed as they started I think that is Representative Frailly. My understanding is that whether this money is invested or not [xx] they provide more opportunity to give more scholarship money to needy students further discussion, further debate on amendment B is amended. Say none, those who favour adoption of amendment B as amended will signify by saying aye, "Aye", those opposed signify by saying no, "no". Those in favour of adoption of amendment those amended will raise their hands and keep them raised, the clerk will assist me. please put your hands down, those opposing please raise your hands. Members will vote 14 in the affirmative and 11 in the negative the amendment as amended is adopted. Representative Torbat moves that committee substitute number two to House bill number 97 as amended be roll into a in committee substitute favourable report to the new committee substitute unfavourable as to committee substitute number two and further that the staff is authorized to make technical corrections and confirming changes related to reconciling the various amendment adopted, further discussion further debate? Seeing none those in favour for the motion of gentleman from Gaston to give to give Committee Substitute number two as amended a favorable report unfavorable to the original Committee Substitute number two, will signify by saying aye, aye. Those opposed will signify by saying no, no, in opinion ayes have it, the motion carries the chair thank for member and I guess we will be in here today we will work on the air-conditioner for next time, there will be note the senate adjourned.